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Oculus Rift S

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Re: Oculus Rift S

#241

Post by philwelch »

gpm wrote: post #212
philwelch wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think "virtual desktop" is a short-sighted notion of how VR user interfaces would end up in reality--although you can do a hell of a lot by just rendering 2D planes in your VR environment.

There are a few things that "real" 3d is useful for, 3d modelling, cad, games, art, movies, ... Basically entertainment + modelling real world 3d things. For most of what we do on a computer I don't think so though. Text based communication (social media, email, etc), reading books, writing documents, doing accounting, etc. These are all tasks that don't have any intrinsic third dimension, and since the information n…

I think most UX will be planar, but the planes will be arranged in 3D space.

Re: Oculus Rift S

#242

Post by fjabre »

moron4hire wrote: post #217
fjabre wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get sick mostly because of the neurological issues associated with keeping eyes focused on objects at fixed lengths even though they are perceived as far away in the VR world. Vergence-accommodation conflict: https://medium.com/vrinflux-dot-com/vergence-accommodation-c...

Vergence accommodation conflict is a contributor but not anywhere near a primary source.

The jury is still out on that. There simply is no research to prove or disprove what you or I are saying.

My educated guess is that it actually is quite important and the key to making VR more comfortable for long term use.

I think it is the primary issue. I am a software developer who works in the neuroscience field. I am not an MD but I have read enough research to know you cannot definitively say what the cause is, and that disrupting such natural processes in the brain are likely to have consequences. To me it seems obvious that it's the primary source of the headaches and nausea commonly associated with VR.

For example I have certainly felt sick in the real world from roller coasters. But I have never felt the type of sick I get when I put on a VR helmet. It's another feeling all together. And it comes on differently than any other sick feeling I've had. This is anecdotal of course. I digress.

If VR doesn't solve this issue, VR doesn't go anywhere IMHO. But it's obvious they will solve it in time and as someone who closely follows the field it seems to be one of their primary concerns.

Re: Oculus Rift S

#243

Post by yboris »

Phlarp wrote: post #154
mikenew wrote: post #47

They really phoned it in on this one. No physical IPD adjustment, an 80hz LCD rather than the 90hz OLED, a very marginal resolution increase to 1280×1440 (which is still less than the $200 WMR headset I bought almost two years ago), and no FOV increase. The move to inside-out tracking means a more convenient setup, but it will lose tracking when you put your hands behind you (like shooting a bow, which just about rui…

Maybe it's a market fit question? Certainly the original Oculus had a very successful kickstarter, but that was a ~$350 device and it was expected a standard gaming computer would be able to keep up with the resolution and refresh rates. Now it appears that for a "good VR experience" at the high end you need a ~$600 headset, a $1300 graphics card and a dedicated/padded room with no major breakable items. Even with al…

My $300 graphics card from 2 years ago handles all the VR just fine: Radon RX 480 - now costs about $200

Re: Oculus Rift S

#244

Post by gpm »

dwighttk wrote: post #240
gpm wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing? Because consoles offer literally nothing over desktops for that, and schools, libraries, etc already have desktops?

true... what does VR offer in those categories over desktops?

Better IO?

There's almost certainly educational value in being able to view (and sometimes interact) with a 3d model of a cell/organ/body/physics simulation/3d chemical model/...

Re: Oculus Rift S

#245

Post by JabavuAdams »

fjabre wrote: post #216
JabavuAdams wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR Dev since 2014, here. The content is what makes people sick, not the hardware (these days). I haven't gotten sick in VR since Rift DK2. Been using the Vive since. No sickness in The Lab. Recently tried playing Everest VR -- queasy due to lots of flying, slow camera movement. Apollo 11 was a lot better, but still had some iffy swooping camera moves. Basically, you can not make the same kind of game for VR that you…

People get sick mostly because of the neurological issues associated with keeping eyes focused on objects at fixed lengths even though they are perceived as far away in the VR world. Vergence-accommodation conflict: https://medium.com/vrinflux-dot-com/vergence-accommodation-c...

If this were true, why can I stay in The Lab for hours, but I get sick in Everest VR in minutes, on the same hardware? Why did the dozens of VR devs I have talked to get sick on 2014-2015 hardware, playing tech-demos, but they don't on 2018 hardware, playing games designed for comfort?

Also, lack of positional sensing (versus angular) on mobile VR devices is a much bigger contributor to discomfort.

I'm not sure why you're so keen on vergence accommodation, but it seems that you're focusing on a tiny effect, when the large effects are known.

Just because there's little in the peer-reviewed literature, does not mean that this is poorly understood by practitioners.

Re: Oculus Rift S

#246

Post by fjabre »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #245
fjabre wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get sick mostly because of the neurological issues associated with keeping eyes focused on objects at fixed lengths even though they are perceived as far away in the VR world. Vergence-accommodation conflict: https://medium.com/vrinflux-dot-com/vergence-accommodation-c...

If this were true, why can I stay in The Lab for hours, but I get sick in Everest VR in minutes, on the same hardware? Why did the dozens of VR devs I have talked to get sick on 2014-2015 hardware, playing tech-demos, but they don't on 2018 hardware, playing games designed for comfort? Also, lack of positional sensing (versus angular) on mobile VR devices is a much bigger contributor to discomfort. I'm not sure why y…

I come from a neuroscience background hence my bias. It's the fundamental way in which we focus on objects in the real world. It is not functioning normally at all with a headset on.

No one Ive met can stay in VR for hours regardless of game. Most of my friends who have tried or have VR devices get sick after 45 minutes. Admittedly they are not VR enthusiasts or hard core gamers however.

Re: Oculus Rift S

#247

Post by Phlarp »

yboris wrote: post #243
Phlarp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's a market fit question? Certainly the original Oculus had a very successful kickstarter, but that was a ~$350 device and it was expected a standard gaming computer would be able to keep up with the resolution and refresh rates. Now it appears that for a "good VR experience" at the high end you need a ~$600 headset, a $1300 graphics card and a dedicated/padded room with no major breakable items. Even with al…

My $300 graphics card from 2 years ago handles all the VR just fine: Radon RX 480 - now costs about $200

yes, because nobody is trying to drive 4k per eye at 144hz with lower latencies than we can currently get to.

Re: Oculus Rift S

#248

Post by entropicdrifter »

vanattab wrote: post #234
davefp wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what HTC were going for with the Pro, it's geared towards commercial use. Hobbyists are still buying it (naturally) but what we're really waiting for is whatever Valve are up to.

≥but what we're really waiting for is whatever Valve are up to. You could be waiting a while. If I am not mistaken valve just let go most of their VR headset staff. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...

Yeah, looks like they're pivoting their non-Steam/game related dev strategies more towards linux gaming and better streaming support than anything else

Re: Oculus Rift S

#249

Post by moron4hire »

fjabre wrote: post #242
moron4hire wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vergence accommodation conflict is a contributor but not anywhere near a primary source.

The jury is still out on that. There simply is no research to prove or disprove what you or I are saying. My educated guess is that it actually is quite important and the key to making VR more comfortable for long term use. I think it is the primary issue. I am a software developer who works in the neuroscience field. I am not an MD but I have read enough research to know you cannot definitively say what the cause is…

I've been working in VR and AR for nearly a decade. I've even built my own headsets. The experiences that make people sick are always low framerate. I've put people through experiences pegged at 90FPS for hours at a time with no nausea.

Re: Oculus Rift S

#250

Post by asciimo »

philwelch wrote: post #241
gpm wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few things that "real" 3d is useful for, 3d modelling, cad, games, art, movies, ... Basically entertainment + modelling real world 3d things. For most of what we do on a computer I don't think so though. Text based communication (social media, email, etc), reading books, writing documents, doing accounting, etc. These are all tasks that don't have any intrinsic third dimension, and since the information n…

I think most UX will be planar, but the planes will be arranged in 3D space.

Yes, I would like to be able to arrange displays with a 3rd dimension. Rather than have simply a 2d grid for arrangement. For example, have lesser used workspaces placed somewhere in the distance, but still visible and readily available to be brought front and center.
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