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UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

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Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#161
post #147
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would have been a better path (honest question)?

If there was ever to be a workable Brexit it should have been driven by a Leaver. Theresa May was not a Leave campaigner before the referendum, just an anti-immigrant Home Secretary. She therefore adopted the anti-free-movement position, which condemns the UK to being outside the free trade area, and completely blows up the Ireland situation. What "should" have happened is one of Johnson, Davis, or Gove running it. O…

I think those three would have failed just as hard.

IMO, whoever was in charge, it should have been done like this: 1. Nationwide consultations about type of Brexit; 2. Determine best fit; 3. Work out negotiation objectives and fallback plans; 4. Then invoke A50.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#162
post #82
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"half the country wants to leave" A slim majority of those who voted, several years ago, stirred up by masses of illegal propaganda, especially in the last days before the vote. Now after getting some idea of the reality, the tides look to have significantly changed. Current opinion polls are showing significant majority for remain.(61% in the last YouGov poll) (Also, it was 17 not 33)

According to The Economist, Feb 23, reporting on a YouGov survey in December, 49% support Remain, and that number hasn't changed much. However, the 51% who don't support Remain support a variety of different proposals. To me it seems highly unlikely that any particular proposal would beat Remain in a choice between those two options. Remain is the Condorcet winner. That "61%" is probably about right for what would yo…

A proper followup referendum should be something like this.

A) Should we leave?

B) if we leave, should be we leave even without a deal with the EU?

I.e. two (or more) distinct questions. If you vote no at the fort question, you still get to express your opinion on the second.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#163

These petitions are almost always met with a boilerplate response. There was a recent one (which I can't find as the site's currently down) regarding Russian interference in the last UK election, with the government response being along the lines of "we don't know what you're talking about, move on". More on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/b2vmm0/gover... While the huge number of signings o…

I think you may be surprised by the outcome. The real question is, do the Tory party want to commit political suicide by administering a no deal brexit, and risk never getting re-elected until the subsequent turmoil subsides? I think not.

Farage and the rest are no where to be seen (he still collects his salary from the EU apparently though!).

The upshot of all this mess will probably be as unlikely as the referendum result itself. Personally, I'm expecting the unexpected, and can see a total revocation of article 50, resulting most probably from a people's vote (anything else would be undemocratic). I mean, what other realistic option is there that isn't utterly pie-in-the-sky stupid?!

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#164
post #102
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she has handled this dreadfully. She should have built a parliamentary cross-party consensus on what option to pursue well before now. Her only negotiating tactic with parliament is pushing things up to the deadline and saying my deal or no deal. Read Matthew Parris' reports of her personality (e.g. [1]). He (a conservative journalist) says that almost everyone says she doesn't listen to anyone, speaks in sou…

> saying my deal or no deal But consider it from a higher-level perspective. Had she done everything perfectly (for whatever definition of "perfect"), would anything be different? The EU is the "problem" here, not the UK parliament. The UK was never going to get what they wanted - free trade with no freedom of movement, nor no border between Ireland and Northern Ireland and no border between Norther Ireland and the m…

> The only deal possible is something like Norway and Switzerland have

And yet, that's not what she was negotiating. You're correct in the sense that there was never a perfect Brexit to be had but we're about a week away from the worst possible outcome. Those were never the only two options.

And a lot of the problems are of her own making. The execution of the 2017 GE was one of the worst in living memory. That was entirely her doing. She then fought against parliamentary scrutiny and lost. She then threw away most of her negotiating position.

At that point, any sensible person would realise that they're not going to get everything their own way and start preparing for getting consensus. But no, they negotiated a deal without any discussion outside of the Government (even key members of her own party) and are then surprised when it doesn't pass.

I take that back. The deal didn't just not pass. It was the worst ever Government loss in the history of one of the oldest parliaments in the world. So time to reset, take stock and change tack? No, let's keep barrelling on. Why? No idea. I mean, the fixed date, red lines etc are there to keep the harder Brexiters on side i.e. the folk that aren't even voting for the deal.

The whole strategy only made rationale sense if she had a landslide in 2017. When that didn't occur, the only sensible approach was to spend 2 years achieving a cross party consensus for something.

And just to be clear, I'm not only a natural Tory, I was delighted when she was chosen as PM as she appeared to be the sort of pragmatic technocrat that I believed the country needed at this time. Unfortunately, I now believe she is the worst PM we have had in my lifetime. And about to cause preventable harm to the country I call home. It is most saddening.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#165
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get to keep having do overs until enough of your opposition has died to get the result you want. Might as well just start banning "racists" and other undesirables from the polls outright if that's the path you want to go down.

I'm only pointing out that the two sides were not competing fairly, e.g. the Leave side broke the law: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/corrupt-vot...

Then what's the legal recourse / precedent for handling illegal votes?

If it's not codified, then it sounds like a failure of the government structure and charter

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#166
post #159
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If every vote in which the outcome was swayed with misdirection and untruth was invalidated, we’d have to give up on democracy completely. I would say the opposite: unless you do that, you have already given up on democracy. > I certainly feel I had sufficient information to make an informed choice. So do 93% of both leavers and remainers. Trouble is, these two groups disagree about which statements are true: is th…

>I would say the opposite: unless you do that, you have already given up on democracy. As you say yourself, despite all that has happened, the vast majority of leavers and remainers still believe in the same choice. Most of the issues are matters of opinion, not fact. Even if leaving the EU is a disaster, many Brexiteers will believe it was only disaster because "it wasn't done properly". My take on that is, this was…

> Most of the issues are matters of opinion, not fact.

I don’t see how you can make this claim. Perhaps you have seen more mere-options than me?

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#167
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your site cache the numbers? It could be really useful to take some of the load off the main petition's site, as people keep going there and refreshing the page which is overloading it.

It refreshes every 5 seconds, and uses the data from the petition JSON API (just add .json to a petition URL).

Do you store the results locally on your server so that it isn't making multiple requests for each visitor?

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#168
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popular movement sponsored by a weird coalition of lying press, controversy-driven TV, illegal use of personal data, and (seemingly) foreign intelligence services? The inability to force a clear Leave manifesto is the root of the disaster. What "should" have happened is either a Leave PM, or the 2017 election should have been run on a clear Leave manifesto specifying a realistic deal to be sought against a Remain opp…

Ok here's an angle. I can completely understand you if you are concerned about wanting free trade, free migration; but abstracted representation? Foreign authoritative bureaucracies? I don't mean to say you're wrong. I'm just saying there appears to be obvious, legitimate concerns here, and your suggesting otherwise seems possibly disingenuous.

> abstracted representation

Yes, the EU representation is quite distant. The UK has an unelected upper house.

> Foreign authoritative bureaucracies?

This isn't great, but at least the EU one is elected. The alternative in all the other trade deals is unelected. Hence all the opposition to things like TTIP, and earlier complaints about GATT etc.

Fundamentally, voting against the EU doesn't make it go away. Some sort of framework always needs to exist to make agreements with other European countries. If the EU didn't exist, it would probably be necessary to invent it.

Hence the Norway/Switzerland situation: not in the EU, has to follow EU rules without having a vote on them.

> legitimate concerns

Here's the thing: hardly anyone talks about those anymore. Brexit has been absolutely dominated by antipathy towards immigrants, both EU and non-EU (despite this not being anything to do with the EU). There's no way to "unwind" EU immigration without ripping families apart.

(I was a Euroskeptic about the treatment of Greece, for example. But ultimately Greece realised that however bad a situation it was in, crashing out would be worse. The same applies to the UK, with "Tory Syriza" running it)

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#169
post #163

These petitions are almost always met with a boilerplate response. There was a recent one (which I can't find as the site's currently down) regarding Russian interference in the last UK election, with the government response being along the lines of "we don't know what you're talking about, move on". More on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/b2vmm0/gover... While the huge number of signings o…

I think you may be surprised by the outcome. The real question is, do the Tory party want to commit political suicide by administering a no deal brexit, and risk never getting re-elected until the subsequent turmoil subsides? I think not. Farage and the rest are no where to be seen (he still collects his salary from the EU apparently though!). The upshot of all this mess will probably be as unlikely as the referendum…

> commit political suicide by administering a no deal Brexit

I don't know how this would be political suicide, it is currently the most popular option in polling, and it's not considered to have any greater economic costs than the other options (including reversing the referendum decision entirely!).

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#170

These petitions are almost always met with a boilerplate response. There was a recent one (which I can't find as the site's currently down) regarding Russian interference in the last UK election, with the government response being along the lines of "we don't know what you're talking about, move on". More on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/b2vmm0/gover... While the huge number of signings o…

> While the huge number of signings on this petition obviously does reflect _something_, I'm not sure it's actually doing anything meaningful. Likewise the upcoming march this weekend for a Peoples Vote:

Of course, they will keep voting until they get the answer you wanted.

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