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UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

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Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#131

Post by stordoff »

colinramsay wrote: post #5

These petitions are almost always met with a boilerplate response. There was a recent one (which I can't find as the site's currently down) regarding Russian interference in the last UK election, with the government response being along the lines of "we don't know what you're talking about, move on". More on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/b2vmm0/gover... While the huge number of signings o…

I don't think anyone is expecting anything to come directly of this. However, it puts more pressure on MPs.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#132

Post by pjc50 »

jon889 wrote: post #50
colinramsay wrote: post #5

These petitions are almost always met with a boilerplate response. There was a recent one (which I can't find as the site's currently down) regarding Russian interference in the last UK election, with the government response being along the lines of "we don't know what you're talking about, move on". More on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/b2vmm0/gover... While the huge number of signings o…

I don't really understand how Paris has real protests almost every weekend, yet we're leaving the EU and we've just had a few marches. Marches do nothing, they're preplanned to cause minimal disruption, just make the people in them feel like they're doing something so that it doesn't go further than that. The march on Saturday needs to at least move off the preplanned route and actually cause some inconvenience.

I do think that Karen Bradley's explicit support a couple of weeks ago for the army murdering unarmed demonstrators on Bloody Sunday was not quite the coincidence or "mistake" it was made out to be. It was instead a warning.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#133

Post by Udik »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #20
colinramsay wrote: post #5

These petitions are almost always met with a boilerplate response. There was a recent one (which I can't find as the site's currently down) regarding Russian interference in the last UK election, with the government response being along the lines of "we don't know what you're talking about, move on". More on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/b2vmm0/gover... While the huge number of signings o…

The Brexiteers had won when they successfully framed Brexit as "the will of the 17M". Remainers didn't counter-frame this with "50M didn't vote for Brexit". Therefor all the marches, petitions etc. are always/can be ignored in the context of "but the will of the 17M". "Don't Think of an Elephant!" is now such an old book, and still a lot of people haven't read it. Brexiteers have read it it seems.

The difference between the leave and remain in the referendum was 3.8%. It's hard to picture how small is this difference, but one way to frame it could be this:

If you voted for Brexit, and you were born on any day of the year between the 14th of January and the 31st of December, your vote is matched by a vote for remain, a will opposite to yours and equally deserving of consideration.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#134

Post by ben_w »

simonh wrote: post #94
Khol wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 50m is a slightly misleading point (it includes everyone too young to vote, whatever their viewpoint) but there's a much stronger case to take into account the perspective of the 16m people who voted against this car crash. To declare that because a poorly defined proposition sold with untruth and misdirection won out in a vote means that we can't reflect on what is now known is absurd.

If every vote in which the outcome was swayed with misdirection and untruth was invalidated, we’d have to give up on democracy completely. Every view and opinion was expressed and the electorate had plenty of opportunity to make a decision. I certainly feel I had sufficient information to make an informed choice. I take a longer view. Democracy is a serious business and the fact the referendum decided on a specific o…

> If every vote in which the outcome was swayed with misdirection and untruth was invalidated, we’d have to give up on democracy completely.

I would say the opposite: unless you do that, you have already given up on democracy.

> I certainly feel I had sufficient information to make an informed choice.

So do 93% of both leavers and remainers. Trouble is, these two groups disagree about which statements are true: is the EU democratic? Which is responsible for employment rights? For the level of immigration from Africa and the Middle East? How expensive is it? What benefits does it provide?

It is necessarily the case that around half the UK voters believe total nonsense. I know which side I believe, but that doesn’t really help.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#135

Post by huffmsa »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #123
huffmsa wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get to keep having do overs until enough of your opposition has died to get the result you want. Might as well just start banning "racists" and other undesirables from the polls outright if that's the path you want to go down.

> You don't get to keep having do overs One could say the same about May's repeated requests for votes in parliament on her "deal". It was rejected, we need a better solution. I voted remain but I'd rather crash out with no deal on the 29th than go through this endless uncertainty ad nauseum.

Agreed. If she's offering something different each time then you can possibly call it a negotiation. But the identical terms / proposition each time is a farce.

I'm of the opinion you guys should get the Empire back together. The Canadians would love it.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#136

Post by stordoff »

tomp wrote: post #54
colinramsay wrote: post #5

These petitions are almost always met with a boilerplate response. There was a recent one (which I can't find as the site's currently down) regarding Russian interference in the last UK election, with the government response being along the lines of "we don't know what you're talking about, move on". More on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/b2vmm0/gover... While the huge number of signings o…

> The sheer stubbornness of Theresa May's position What do you mean? To me, it seems she's tried pretty much everything, but the parliament voted down most of the proposals... Edit: I have nothing but respect for her. She's literally the only person in the wide political spectrum in the UK that's willing to actually deal with this like a sensible adult, and she's been eating a ton of shit for it, barely complaining a…

> She's literally the only person in the wide political spectrum in the UK that's willing to actually deal with this like a sensible adult

She's been told by the rules of Parliament that she can't have another vote on the same deal. That remains to be her plan.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#137

Post by Jarmsy »

simonh wrote: post #94
Khol wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 50m is a slightly misleading point (it includes everyone too young to vote, whatever their viewpoint) but there's a much stronger case to take into account the perspective of the 16m people who voted against this car crash. To declare that because a poorly defined proposition sold with untruth and misdirection won out in a vote means that we can't reflect on what is now known is absurd.

If every vote in which the outcome was swayed with misdirection and untruth was invalidated, we’d have to give up on democracy completely. Every view and opinion was expressed and the electorate had plenty of opportunity to make a decision. I certainly feel I had sufficient information to make an informed choice. I take a longer view. Democracy is a serious business and the fact the referendum decided on a specific o…

It wasn't just the usual 'misdirection and untruth', the Leave campaigns were found guilty of multiple crimes (and there's still more to investigate). If it had been a binding vote, it would have been invalidated.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#138

Post by AnaniasAnanas »

colinramsay wrote: post #5

These petitions are almost always met with a boilerplate response. There was a recent one (which I can't find as the site's currently down) regarding Russian interference in the last UK election, with the government response being along the lines of "we don't know what you're talking about, move on". More on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/b2vmm0/gover... While the huge number of signings o…

There was also one about tv licenses, their response was basically "but this is how bbc gets funded!" and ignored the results of the petition.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#139

Post by tomp »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #127
tomp wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would have been a better path (honest question)?

Building a deliverable, realistic consensus approach with cross-party support, reflecting the relatively close outcome of the initial referendum and the diversity of opinion within the "leave" movement.

But that's my question, what's a "realistic consensus"? Mind you, consensus within the UK isn't enough, you need consensus with the EU as well - and I don't think anything better than the current deal is even possible.

Re: UK Parliament petitions site crashes under traffic for petition to cancel Brexit

#140

Post by misnome »

frutiger wrote: post #91
misnome wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think mostly everyone signing this knows this. But it’s not as though we’ve been listened to in any way. I like the summary of @bootstrapcool on Twitter: “God knows we've tried everything else.[...] A brief use of collective impotent fury and a tiny squeak into the black holes of our futures, but it's something.”

> But it’s not as though we’ve been listened to in any way. I get the sentiment (as a pro-Euro Brit), but surely the original referendum counts as being listened to in some way?

> surely the original referendum counts as being listened to in some way?

Even ignoring all the illegality and fraud about the referendum, and ignoring that because it was advisory large portions of british citizens living abroad were prevented from having a say, and ignoring the arguments about 16-year-olds who it would be directly affecting because of the time lags, and ignoring the arguments around the fact that the process/success has been wildly, wildly different than promised,

Ever since the referendum 50% of the population of the UK has had no representation in Parliament and government, whilst being endlessly parroted at that it is the "will of the people" and simultaneously being blamed for everything going predictably wrong.

Democratic governments aren't supposed to have one vote then completely ignore the rest of the population.

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