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Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

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Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#111

Post by jaifraic »

onli wrote: post #48
gerdesj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR and Article 13 (in The Directive on Copyright) are totally different and unrelated things. I happen to be a small business owner in the EU and I have many customers who are the same. We all have registered with the ICO (UK) for something like £60 pa and filled in a short questionnaire. We have read the clear guidance on what records to keep and what to not keep - it's not rocket science. That is GDPR for most sm…

> I understand that A13 looks a bit like an anti-meme effort but it isn't because that is generally covered by parody or reasonable use regulations. That's exactly the problem. Stuff of that is protected, and with good reason. But upload filter that would be mandated by article 13 can't detect that fair use. By enforcing them for all platforms like Youtube all of this will vanish from the european internet.

This is why A13 requires the platform to have an actual human being revise the decision if something is wrongfully blocked. I think it's in chapter 4 or 8 of the article IIRC.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#112

Post by sisu2019 »

eikxyz wrote: post #20
IdiocyInAction wrote: post #7

As an EU citizen, I hope large portions of the internet will just block us. A couple of days without YouTube, Wikipedia and other services would create sufficient outrage to put pressure on the EU for introducing these idiotic laws. I mean, GDPR is bad enough for start ups, but Article 13?

GDPR was never intended to be "good for startups". Just like pro-climate policies are never intended to be good for the economy. GDPR was intended to be good for peoples privacy. Pro-climate policies are meant to be good for the climate. Somethings gotta give. People are generally more important than startups. Climate is generally more important than economy. Because without people, there are no startups. And without…

this is the standard of current debate: "people are more important than ...". Well done! Well done! I guess that does give carte blanch to any and all regulations that can be said to be "for the people", so all of them. Wow, nobody though about this before, really good. You are a master philospher, Sir! Pay no mind though to the people who had arranged themselves in mutually beneficial relations that these regulations hinder or destroy because they are not real people. Only those persons who need their PII "protected" (not from the state of course) are really real anyway.

Idiots like this fool are also running the EU, my god was the internet a great place before his ilk got here.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#113

Post by [deleted] »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #39
sametmax wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gdpr doesn't prevent such thing. It just requires consent, care and empowerment.

The GDPR does not allow you to block people who do not consent. Well, it's never gone to court yet, so I guess you can't say for sure. But that's how it's widely interpreted.

[deleted]

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#114

Post by mikkom »

orangecat wrote: post #33
confounded wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 13 is terrible not because it’s terrible for start-ups, it’s terrible because it’s terrible for people. I’m pretty close to the rough-end of GDPR in my current job, but it represents real benefits for millions of people. If you asked them what’s a reasonable way to treat their data, I believe the GDPR is close-ish to what a lot of Europeans would want. Or, at least a shift in the right direction. Article 13 o…

If you asked them what’s a reasonable way to treat their data, I believe the GDPR is close-ish to what a lot of Europeans would want. I'm pretty sure that if you asked people whether they would prefer to pay for Facebook and Google with cash or by sharing data for ad targeting, most would choose the latter. The GDPR specifically forbids that option. Article 13 on the other hand is what you get if you ask rights-holde…

Well consumers can still give information to google if they want to, gdpr does not disallow it.

What is now forbidden is to gather identifiable data about people without consent and ability to remove it.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#115

Post by sametmax »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #39
sametmax wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gdpr doesn't prevent such thing. It just requires consent, care and empowerment.

The GDPR does not allow you to block people who do not consent. Well, it's never gone to court yet, so I guess you can't say for sure. But that's how it's widely interpreted.

Yes, you need consent. That's the point. That's good for us, the users. Services can still do all what they did before, but we need to agree.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#116

Post by jaifraic »

koonsolo wrote: post #103
austincheney wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is enforcing copyright censorship? I am not being antagonistic as I have actually no idea what is in this new law.

Let me give you a clear example. Look at this: Exit light Enter night Take my hand We're off to Never—, Neverland Now I lay me down to sleep Pray the Lord my soul to keep If I die before I wake Pray the Lord my soul to take These are the lyrics of Metallica "Enter Sandman". YCombinator can now get sued because they didn't filter out my post. They unlawfully published copyrighted material. Without this law, I would be…

This is false. A13 Chapter 5[1] explicitly allows posts like yours:

The cooperation between online content service providers and rightholders shall not result in the prevention of the availability of works or other subject matter uploaded by users which do not infringe copyright and related rights, including where such works or subject matter are covered by an exception or limitation.

Member States shall ensure that users in all Member States are able to rely on the following existing exceptions and limitations when uploading and making available content generated by users on online content sharing services: a) quotation, criticism, review, b) use for the purpose of caricature, parody or pastiche.

It would however forbid you to post that lyrics without any commentary or some sort of relection.

[1]: https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Art_13_unoff...

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#117

Post by xxs »

koonsolo wrote: post #104

Here are part of the lyrics of "Enter Sandman" of Metallica: Exit light Enter night Take my hand We're off to Never—, Neverland Now I lay me down to sleep Pray the Lord my soul to keep If I die before I wake Pray the Lord my soul to take YCombinator is now in violation of article 13. Some filter should have prevented me from posting this. That is what article 13 is about.

Imagine you have translated it to another language of the EU member states (not the one official for the UK [still], Ireland or Malta) Yep, the article 13 is beyond dumb.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#118

Post by kruczek »

beobab wrote: post #88
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well since you can't make sharing of personal data a prerequisite for using a service unless it can be shown that data is actually necessary for the operation of the service it could be argued that this follows.

That's not quite accurate. The law allows you to legitimately ask for permission to share the data for advertising purposes, but you have to be transparent with the details, and the advertiser has to have the same safeguards on the data as your company (they aren't allowed to re-sell it without the original company's knowledge, for example).

That's not fully accurate either. All that you wrote is true, but user's permission must be freely given - this means access to the service cannot be restricted if user refuses to give permission (as long as that permission isn't strictly required to provide the service itself, but then probably permission is not the right basis for processing data).

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#119

Post by xxs »

IdiocyInAction wrote: post #7

As an EU citizen, I hope large portions of the internet will just block us. A couple of days without YouTube, Wikipedia and other services would create sufficient outrage to put pressure on the EU for introducing these idiotic laws. I mean, GDPR is bad enough for start ups, but Article 13?

There is nothing hard about implementing GDPR, esp. for startups that start from ground zero.

The copyright directive is a whole different beast. Those two don't belong together.

I am saying that after implementing GDPR for a large organization with millions of customers and multiple departments.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#120

Post by scarejunba »

mikekchar wrote: post #40
orangecat wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you asked them what’s a reasonable way to treat their data, I believe the GDPR is close-ish to what a lot of Europeans would want. I'm pretty sure that if you asked people whether they would prefer to pay for Facebook and Google with cash or by sharing data for ad targeting, most would choose the latter. The GDPR specifically forbids that option. Article 13 on the other hand is what you get if you ask rights-holde…

> I'm pretty sure that if you asked people whether they would prefer to pay for Facebook and Google with cash or by sharing data for ad targeting, most would choose the latter. The GDPR specifically forbids that option. First, it's important to distinguish between the types of lawful bases with which you are processing data. For example, if you were to provide a service of targeting ads to people, you do not need con…

Dudeo, people are just going to sign up, get their money back for their data, then ask you to delete the data right away. You have to still provide the service, just now for free.
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