Most Wasabi Is Fake [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#81

Post by code_duck » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:00 AM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #52

nkozyra wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> properly What does this mean, really? This always strikes me as snobbery signaling. Perhaps it's traditional, but does that make it "proper?" Why do only some cuisines have such constraints on what is "proper" or "authentic?"

Most “improperly” prepared sushi is not intentionally aiming for something new, but is just mediocre (or bad, depending on your standards), I would guess typically because the chef doesn’t know what they are doing, or maybe because the restaurant is cutting corners to save time/money. Poorly prepared rice is usually the most obvious problem. Imagine you order a medium rare steak and it’s overcooked and much too salty…

I struggled making that distinction clear when criticizing Mexican restaurants in northern Minnesota. When I would say that I thought a restaurant was low-quality, people would dismiss my opinion saying “sure, it’s not authentic but…“.

However, what I was really saying was that the overall standards of the restaurant were low in terms of food quality and freshness, like fast food or a TV dinner served on fancy plates. In most cases the interpretation of the cuisine was perfectly adequate, and only the preparation and flavor lacked.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#82

Post by rdl » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:13 AM UTC

Kind of awesome that you can get it in SFBA (Berkeley) at Tokyo Fish Market for $80/pound (which is expensive, but you don't use that much.

Grown in Half Moon Bay. Other US growing locations are Oregon and Washington State.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#83

Post by gotocake » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:15 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #74

gotocake wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d add that if you don’t like ultra-rare beer then it’s kind of a waste. I’m not a fan of anything that isn’t medium, and by that temp a lot of the fine marbling is effectively lost. In short, when I finally had some real A5 I realized it was totally wasted on me. If you liked carpaccio though, it would probably be amazing. I think too often people attach value judgements to grades or things, to wine and the like, w…

There's a chapter in "The Man Who Ate Everything" (which is excellent) about "Kobe", and you could sum it up as: it's a good product that is not simply a "better version" of other steaks, and if not prepared specially (as in, in dishes designed for A5 beef), it's pretty much a waste.

In my limited experience that’s a perfect way of putting it. I might have to read that book too, it seems interesting.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#84

Post by peterwwillis » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #62

dymk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do words mean anything? Why do we categorize anything into any number of buckets of arbitrary granularity? If I’m served a steak or a slab of raw salmon, am I gatekeeping or being snobby when I claim that I was not served sushi?

This isn't what we're talking about at all though.

derefr has a great explanation of traditional vs proper vs authentic. But on Why do only some cuisines have such constraints?, that's probably just down to culture.

Prescribing how a dish is made expresses a deep cultural identity through food, even if that food has evolved greatly over time. You might be able to change a dish and even improve its flavor, but it would no longer be that culture's food.

Now, why do only some cuisines seem to be sticklers more than others? Probably because some people are more sensitive than others about their food. They probably went to get a certain kind of meal, and it wasn't what they were expecting, and they were pissed off. And I get that. If you have an intention to eat this culture's food, you don't want some weird western "interpretation" of it, or some jackass from NY who thinks putting cream cheese on it makes it "regional". You want to be connected to where that dish first came from, and all the breadth of history that distilled into creating its specific flavors and textures. You want that dish.

It doesn't help that when dishes are transported out of their country of origin they get transmuted into some kind of local monstrosity. Tex-mex? Spaghetti and meatballs? "Chinese takeout"? California rolls? It's clearly not the real mccoy, but people still call it "mexican", "italian", "chinese", or "sushi", when it barely resembles those cuisines at all. And don't get me started on trying to find a real burger or bbq anywhere outside this country, to say nothing of those rarer American foods, like drip coffee.

And to be honest, there's probably a certain amount of cultural elitism involved in "cuisine" (the French word for "we're better than you"). I've always found the French and Japanese alike in that they both think they're superior to everyone else on earth. That's probably going to result in a lot of uppity people wanting their dish the "superior" way. But for me, it's about wanting to understand and respect the deep cultural traditions that produce singularly unique and beautiful expressions of food.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#85

Post by jjeaff » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:24 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #75

hristov wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That maybe real but is it real and fresh? If it is mixed from the freeze dried stuff it will lose a lot of its flavor. As the article says, wasabi loses its taste quickly.

Yes, in a high-end Japanese restaurant, the "real" wasabi is fresh-grated.

When I have had real wasabi, I have always found it to be superior. It wasn't quite as sharp as the fake stuff but it seemed to have a much deeper flavor (more umami, perhaps). I didn't find it watery at all. Maybe my perception was just colored by the novelty and rarety. But I also suspect that quality can vary greatly season to season and even day to day.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#86

Post by tptacek » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

gotocake wrote: post #83

tptacek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a chapter in "The Man Who Ate Everything" (which is excellent) about "Kobe", and you could sum it up as: it's a good product that is not simply a "better version" of other steaks, and if not prepared specially (as in, in dishes designed for A5 beef), it's pretty much a waste.

In my limited experience that’s a perfect way of putting it. I might have to read that book too, it seems interesting.

Highest possible recommendation. It is one of the great food books.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#87

Post by imetatroll » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #10

Most sushi places don't prepare nigiri properly in my experience. Each piece of nigiri should have wasabi between the rice and seafood and a small amount of sauce on top, intended to be eaten fish-side-down. (SF probably has the most places that do it correctly outside NYC and LA) You're welcome to eat it however you like, but the ginger is generally speaking the palate cleanser while wasabi is historically both flav…

Actually the ginger is not a palate cleanser: it is used to dip into the soy sauce so that that can be spread evenly and delicately on top of the sushi which allows one to avoid clumsily dipping the sushi. People seldom do this, but a Japanese sushi chef would tell you this.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#88

Post by distantaidenn » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:39 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #5

In high-end Japanese restaurants, you can often get real wasabi (it'll be listed at the bottom of the menu). My experience with it has been that it's usually coarser, more watery, and less pungent than the "standard" wasabi. I do not prefer it; whatever combination of horseradish and mustard restaurants default to is, I think, the better product. If I was eating wasabi on its own and trying to, I don't know, apprecia…

Live in Tokyo and couldn't agree more.

I've been to Mt. Mitake a few times, where wasabi makes up a nice portion of the economy. Towards the top of the mountain, you can literally smell the wasabi in the air. It's kind of the locals' gimmick as well to put wasabi in everything -- pretty sure I saw wasabi ice-cream.

The fresh "real" stuff is quite earthy, and frankly, I find unpleasant in any significant quantity. I bought quite a bit last time I was there and tried to learn to appreciate it. Ending up going bad in the fridge.

Give me good old horseradish any day.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#89

Post by distantaidenn » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:48 AM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #10

Most sushi places don't prepare nigiri properly in my experience. Each piece of nigiri should have wasabi between the rice and seafood and a small amount of sauce on top, intended to be eaten fish-side-down. (SF probably has the most places that do it correctly outside NYC and LA) You're welcome to eat it however you like, but the ginger is generally speaking the palate cleanser while wasabi is historically both flav…

Not sure how it's done in the US, but here, the chef usually asks you if you want wasabi or not (at least at any place a step above conveyor sushi).

In addition, at any decent omakase place (chef decides the menu), the chef will instruct you how to best eat each piece: with or without soy sauce, etc.

Re: Most Wasabi Is Fake [video]

#90

Post by cyphar » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 7:16 AM UTC

asn0 wrote: post #18

After many years of peak wasabi use (i.e. highest saturation possible) at Japanese restaurants in the US, I had a chance to eat sushi while on a trip to Shanghai. I don't know if Chinese wasabi is more real or not, but quickly learned it had at least 10x more sinus-cleaning power than US wasabi. That was also the first place where I had 'not possible to be any fresher' sushi - orders were placed at the fish tanks on…

> That was also the first place where I had 'not possible to be any fresher' sushi - orders were placed at the fish tanks on the first floor, restaurant was upstairs.

You really don't want "fresh" sushi. Freshly-caught raw fish has all sorts of parasites and bacteria in it, which is why almost all sashimi-grade fish is flash-frozen to kill the parasites.

In addition, like most things, sashimi tastes better with age -- which is why most sushi restaurants will dry-age their fish (which also ends up tenderising it).

Freshly caught fish can be quite tough, because the muscles go into rigor mortis. Usually fish is kept for a few days before it's ready to eat. I agree with the other commenter which said the fish tanks where there to be misleading.