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4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

arstechnica.com

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Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#151

Post by estebank »

nothal wrote: post #111
Freak_NL wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chances of being in such a situation are so incredibly small, that training to deal with it is a wasted effort compared to a host of other stuff — e.g., learning CPR, taking a course in safely driving in wintery conditions, employing elementary fire safety precautions in the house, etc. Even stimulating people to learn to swim if they haven't already saves way more lives! If you normalize an attack like this to t…

I think the fact these attacks are happening regularly all over the world normalizes this already. The odds of you being the victim of a terror attack are low but honestly you don’t need a 15 minute course on tips. Make news distributors run a 2 minute clip on how to effectively maximize your odds of survival during every broadcast coverage of a mass shooting. I think it also changes the narrative in a would be perpe…

> I think the fact these attacks are happening regularly all over the world normalizes this already.

I think you overestimate how common this style of mass shooting are outside of war zones. Even in places where gun violence is high mass shootings are incredibly rare[2].

Between 1966 and 2012 there were 18 mass shootings in the country with the second most count[1].

[1]: https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/in...

[2]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/theres-a-new-global-rank...

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#152

Post by everdrive »

LinuxBender wrote: post #141
everdrive wrote: post #87

As a bit of an aside, has anyone noticed that 4chan is not using HTTPS lately? I assume it's due to the new ownership. Does anyone have more info?

Do you mean not enforcing it? You can use the addon "HTTPS Everywhere" to avoid going to port 80 by mistake.

Well, to be frank, what I really meant was "do you think the lack of HTTPS was intentional so nefarious actors could be passively identified."

But, I didn't want to pose an allegation like that with so few facts.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#153

Post by bduerst »

Nadya wrote: post #139
krapp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Its such a slippery slope from censorship of bad websites to moving to censorship of good websites that the government does not like. Is it really, though, or do people just like the slippery slope fallacy a bit too much? Does everyone really think that if a government bans 4chan, no one and nothing is going to stop them from banning everything else because there's precedent now and nothing can be done? That's not h…

The "it's a slippery slope fallacy to assume that censorship of bad things will lead to censoring good things" would be a more compelling argument if we didn't have thousands of years of human history proving that it happens again and again. "Oh - don't worry, this time in human history it won't be a slippery slope!" is not a very compelling argument when we have historical precedent of the opposite being true time a…

Isn't that a bit of survivor bias? You only see the times in history where it wasn't effective because those are the instances that somehow survived to become notable. No ship ever sinks if you only ever look at the floating ones.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#154

Post by bduerst »

krapp wrote: post #80
ip26 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be for free speech while also unwilling to host certain speech on a platform you own & operate. I can support your right to protest, while also not permitting you to do it in my living room.

>You can be for free speech while also unwilling to host certain speech on a platform you own & operate. In that case, you're for free speech in principle, but not in practice. Which is fair, given that free speech in practice means being willing to commit felonies.

I think their point was that free speech is more nuanced than the "You're either for free speech or you're not" dichotomy, and that was just one example. Even the philosophers behind free speech said that speech should be curtailed when the expression itself causes harm, and they were certainly proponents for free speech.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#155

Post by CompanionCuuube »

krapp wrote: post #149
CompanionCuuube wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoosh. That post was about your strawman. As in the one that was quoted.

No... I know you thought you were being clever, you just didn't hit the mark. E for effort, though. I didn't invoke any strawman. A slippery slope argument is, by definition, precisely as I described - that a particular degenerative state (be it social, or political) will inevitably be reached starting from some innocent and minor consequence, and that this trend cannot be reversed or corrected for. You know, like fa…

> I didn't invoke any strawman.

Except in the degenerative state that you talked about. No reasonable person has said that the censoring of this one case would lead to censorship of everything, but that's exactly what you decided on for the degenerative state.

> no one and nothing is going to stop them from banning everything else

Try to backpedal harder.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#156

Post by dragonsngoblins »

mooseburger wrote: post #78
bduerst wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they specifically censor content like child pornography, torrent links (AFAIK), and some other material. There are situations where the expression of certain speech, like the generation and propagation of child pornography, harms others and should not be allowed. Even the original FS philosophers mostly agreed on this type of censorship.

Generation of CP harms others yes, but propagation does not. Always did regard the criminalization of possession and propagation of CP as a censorious overreach.

I'd argue spreading it harms others as the people in it didn't consent to it being created or shared and is associated with trauma for them. Knowing that it was perfectly legal for people to share footage of them getting raped as children probably wouldn't be good for their mental health

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#157

Post by plugger »

Jerry2 wrote: post #76
post_break wrote: post #51

Scary how an ISP can just up and decide to block a website for hosting what they think is offensive. I guess it's the norm for China and Russia. What's scarier are the people cheering this as if it's a win.

> I guess it's the norm for China and Russia. I guess it's the norm in Australia and New Zealand now as well. And let's not forget that Sci-Hub has been blocked in a bunch of countries (including the US) and their domains have been taken away [1]. It looks to me that Australia, in particular, is the testing ground for FIVE EYES censorship efforts. Australia recently passed a draconian anti-encryption law [2] which wi…

> It looks to me that Australia, in particular, is the testing ground for FIVE EYES censorship efforts. Australia recently passed a draconian anti-encryption law [2] which will impact a number of multi-national companies. Other members of FIVE EYES are gauging the fallout from this and are probably waiting for some tragedy to strike before they can enact similar laws.

Australia doesn't have free speech in so far as the US does with the first amendment. Australia doesn't have a citizen Bill of Rights either. This combined with Australian's penchant for not taking risks does bode well for using it as a Five Eyes testing ground to remove what some would consider basic rights.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#158

Post by Nadya »

krapp wrote: post #150
Nadya wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "it's a slippery slope fallacy to assume that censorship of bad things will lead to censoring good things" would be a more compelling argument if we didn't have thousands of years of human history proving that it happens again and again. "Oh - don't worry, this time in human history it won't be a slippery slope!" is not a very compelling argument when we have historical precedent of the opposite being true time a…

>when we have historical precedent of the opposite being true time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again. Do we? Because we appear to be in one of several threads about how the ease with which certain content spreads around the internet makes attempts at censorship futile, and I can legally buy a copy of Mein Kampf and the Turner Diaries and read the…

>I don't see the vast amount of "good things" being censored everywhere as a result of the slippery slope of censorship.

I would like to ask that you take a moment to reflect on this statement ... ... ... Okay now moving on.

Who's to say they need to censor "good things"? They only need to censor things that you don't agree with censoring. I won't pretend to know your political standings but I can guarantee you that your opinion and the governments opinion on what should be censored will eventually reach a disagreement.

People tend to give governments powers during a time of need or when they are frightened often in exchange for "increased safety". A perceived increase of safety that may - or may not - result in more safety but with 100% certainty results in giving up certain rights or freedoms.

For the easiest example of exchanging things for a perceived increase in safety. What do you think of the TSA? Is the intrusiveness and racism in the 'random selections' actually resulting in increased safety and security? Or is it mostly security theater? It tramples over peoples' privacy and sometimes violates their rights for a perceived increase of safety but the failure rate is so high that it is meaningless. The government isn't going to get rid of that power (the TSA) so easily. After all, we gave it to them and they'll gladly keep up the security theater in exchange.

The U.S signed away large portions of our privacy and removed many checks & balances placed on the government after the 9/11 attacks. The USA-PATRIOT Act was forced through in a time of need where people were frightened in exchange for safety and security.

By the time you realize you've given the government too much power it's far too late to take any of it back. History is full of examples and history may not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#159

Post by dragonsngoblins »

tombert wrote: post #39

It makes me sad how 4chan has largely been reduced to a place where racists and bigots and sexists hang out. When I was a teenager, it felt like the racists in /b/ were doing it ironically (maybe I was wrong?), but now it seems like a place to spout off white-nationalist nonsense, and whenever its called out the people fall back on "it's just a joke bro!"

Large parts of 4chan are still pretty separate from that. Each board may as well be its own site after all

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#160

Post by senectus1 »

ars wrote: post #29

I watched this "illegal" video. And not only do I think it should not be illegal, I think watching it should be almost mandatory ! Package it with a safety curriculum, and people should watch it to know what to do. In particular: For the most part, those people in the video who ran, lived, those who tried to drop low, or froze up, died. (There were a couple of exceptions.) Additionally, one guy tried to attack the sh…

I tentatively agree. but obviously blur out or maybe completely re-render every individual in it.

I tried to watch it. I had to stop the video as he entered the mosque before he fired a shot.

My heart started racing and i felt sick. it was such a pedestrian build up.

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