Live data from Hacker News

China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

bloomberg.com

261–270 of 270 posts

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#261
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What will conjure up the constant resources Probably the sun and small scale fusion for at least the next thousand years or so. Eventually other stars/large scale fusion/some type of energy production we haven't discovered yet. >and space There is enormous amounts of room left on earth. Everyone on earth could have an acre of land to themselves with 10x the current population, and that completely ignores multi-level…

> There is enormous amounts of room left on earth. Bonkers - if we are to believe the environmental lobby (and I generally do), we are already destroying much of the biosphere. You can't have it both ways! Either things get worse for everyone, or humanity starts to control itself.

>Either things get worse for everyone, or humanity starts to control itself.

Controlling itself doesn't have to mean population control. It just has to mean taking care of our environment in a sustainable way. The number of people we have been able to support in a sustainable way has increased by several orders of magnitude over the past tens of thousands of years and I don't see a compelling reason that trend needs to stop. Climate change isn't tied to population, it's tied to greenhouse gas emissions. We already have the technology demonstrating that we don't need to emit greenhouse gasses.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How Ansterdam taxi drivers afford Teslas, btw?

Given gas prices, cost of oil changes, and the number of miles being driven per year it probably makes economic sense.

It's too bad Toyota doesn't make battery-electric cars; they'd be the perfect car for a taxi. Teslas are expensive and not that reliable, but if Toyota decided they wanted to capture that market they should be able to dominate it with their reliability ratings.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison of how much faster our electrified trolley busses here in hilly Seattle compared to traditional busses is pretty stark, the instant, linear torque is really hard to come close to equaling with a combustion engine. eBikes with mid-drive motors like the BBSHD also have this kind of torque, it can be really fun to ride them due to that. With electric motors, you choose between torque and top RPMs based on…

A city bus (regardless of ICE vs EV) is limited in acceleration by what the manufacturer thinks people will tolerate (a city probably won't buy your bus if their limited trial results in people complaining about getting tossed around) so you get an electronic throttle with some fine tuning on top. Pretty much every modern vehicle has this. The EV manufacturer probably tunes their electronic nanny to give you more tor…

LOLOLOL, the electric busses here in Seattle definitely do not have a torque limiter set to prevent throwing people back in the bus. There are many times I've boarded one and gotten thrown back on the walkway (its less of an issue on ICE busses, but still a problem).

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the torque, it’s energy consumption while climbing a hill. Notes on observed increased energy consumption while on hills during Hong Kong trials: https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201812/12/P2018121200670... Trolleybuses are great for hills because they are constantly drawing power from the grid. It’s why Seattle has committed to trolleybus expansion for its hilly network.

Regenerative braking is very straightforward, making hills a great place to use electric. A nice additional benefit of regenerative braking is stop-and-go driving, like buses do, is hell on brakes and efficiency. Regen allows improved efficiency while saving the brakes. And incidentally, my ears - buses and trucks with worn out brakes make terrible screeching noises which IMHO are among the most unpleasant components…

Regen braking isn’t 100% efficient, and if your route is going uphill a long time one way and then downhill all the way back it’s less helpful.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe putting the point in different words will resonate better: There are already numerous examples of authority stepping in to “save people from themselves.”

What motivates your desire to control other people?

In the end it costs me money, time, and grief to fix your screwups. Example: people who don’t vaccinate can cause problems for the rest as diseases spread more quickly and with greater impact than otherwise. Clear?

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#266
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is enormous amounts of room left on earth. Bonkers - if we are to believe the environmental lobby (and I generally do), we are already destroying much of the biosphere. You can't have it both ways! Either things get worse for everyone, or humanity starts to control itself.

>Either things get worse for everyone, or humanity starts to control itself. Controlling itself doesn't have to mean population control. It just has to mean taking care of our environment in a sustainable way. The number of people we have been able to support in a sustainable way has increased by several orders of magnitude over the past tens of thousands of years and I don't see a compelling reason that trend needs…

> Climate change isn't tied to population, it's tied to greenhouse gas emissions.

Extinction of other species is also tied to deforestation, mining, pollution (chemical, light and noise) as well as hunting and accidents. All of that only increases as our population grows.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any attempt to discuss population control will be met with accusations of eugenics and genocide. So what you do instead is promote women’s rights, education about contraception and birth control, health care for children, immunisations, etc. It turn out that education and empowerment of this kind (especially where you can show women that their children will survive and that everyone can get an education and a job) wi…

Our unchecked population growth has already caused/contributed to the genocide of many species in the last 50 years alone – in just one person's lifetime!

That is not a excuse for imposing mandatory birth control or sterilisation, and will become less and less pertinent as we pass through this extinction event and all the humans end up dead anyway.

As the environmental disaster gets worse, we will end up sacrificing more species in the pursuit of safety for our own. We might mourn the necessary sacrifice in passing, but ultimately the surviving humans will justify everything in the name of one more day.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#268
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, if you wait long enough, CO2 will be removed by the plant life anyway so removing it is "free". However if you reflect the price of the removal process which is as _fast_ as it is emitted to the consumer, someone gonna pay through the nose...

> if you wait long enough, CO2 will be removed by the plant life anyway so removing it is "free" This is a very dangerous misconception and should not be spread around. It is like saying "I don't have to worry about my emissions, because someone else will clean them up for me". Do you have/support enough plant life to clean up your own emissions?

what part of scare quotes didn't you understand? oh right...

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, if you wait long enough, CO2 will be removed by the plant life anyway so removing it is "free". However if you reflect the price of the removal process which is as _fast_ as it is emitted to the consumer, someone gonna pay through the nose...

"Long enough" is unfortunately very long because a large part of the fossile CO2 we emit will remain in the atmosphere until it is sequestered back underground by geological processes. These take thousands of years.

That is exactly my point.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#270
post #230
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the need to maintain rail + power lines, I think these issues are overblown. The badly parked car scenario sounds pretty horrendous in theory - one careless actor causes chaos for an entire city center! In my experience it simply doesn't happen - I think people just know how damaging it could be (and possibly how much trouble they would be in) that they pretty much have to be considerate and self-aware. Ho…

>In my experience it simply doesn't happen - I think people just know how damaging it could be (and possibly how much trouble they would be in) that they pretty much have to be considerate and self-aware. That's not really the why, at least not here. The shortcomings of trams (including derailing and the inability to maneuver past stuck or badly parked cars) are handled by a 24h emergency crew dedicated for just that…

Still seems like a trolley bus at least could get out of such a bind with a very small battery that lasts like 3-5 minutes. It could then recharge said battery when it reconnects. That way it won't have to haul ten tons of flammable batteries everywhere it goes.
Post reply on HN