4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video • Hacker News Board

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#131

Post by LinuxBender » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #20

Seems kinda easy to block niche sites like *chan for hosting the video. Politicians and regulators can stand up and say they "did something." When they block Facebook for streaming it live, then I'll be impressed.

In the case of 4chan, probably not easy to block everyone. They are on CloudFlare, so ISP's will mostly be limited to overriding DNS. The DNS servers on your ISP belong to them, so unless your ISP are doing something outright malicious, it is really up to them what sites they wish to block and they probably know you can't vote with your wallet unless you have plenty of ISP choices. I could be incorrect, so certainly read through your agreement with the ISP.

A decent method of side-stepping ISP DNS is to run Unbound DNS on your home router or a server in your home, if you can.

An example snippet from the configuration in Unbound DNS would look like this:

    forward-zone:
      name: "."
      forward-addr: 1.1.1.1         # CloudFlare
      forward-addr: 1.0.0.1         # CloudFlare
      forward-addr: 8.8.8.8         # Google
      forward-addr: 8.8.4.4         # Google
      forward-addr: 208.67.222.222  # OpenDNS
      forward-first: no

And you can view it's status with unbound-control:

    unbound-control dump_infra | grep 1\.1\.1
    1.1.1.1 . ttl 1745 ping 0 var 71 rtt 284 rto 284 tA 0 tAAAA 0 tother 0 ednsknown 1 edns 0 delay 0 lame dnssec 0 rec 0 A 0 other 0

This method of caching can also slightly improve the privacy of the people using your network. You get the bonus of a local low latency cache, and requests are distributed among multiple destinations, slightly reducing the marketing benefits of running those public DNS servers.

You can also enable TCP and TLS for recursive servers that support DoT (DNS over TLS). I prefer this over DoH, as everything in your home can benefit from it, not just your browser. Some of the servers mentioned above listen on TCP 853 for TLS. Just google "Unbound DNS TLS" There are some examples on Calomel as well. [1]

Here is an example snippet using TLS: (not the full config)

    server:
      delay-close: 200
      do-tcp: yes
      tcp-upstream: yes
      cache-min-ttl: 300

    forward-zone:
      name: "."
      forward-ssl-upstream: yes
      forward-addr: 208.67.222.222@853
      forward-addr: 1.1.1.1@853
      forward-addr: 8.8.4.4@853
      forward-addr: 9.9.9.9@853
      forward-first: no

    unbound-control dump_infra | cut -c 1-60 | column -t
      9.9.9.9@853         .  ttl  851  ping  6    var  84    rtt  342   rto  342  tA  0  tAA
      8.8.4.4@853         .  ttl  851  ping  13   var  79    rtt  329   rto  329  tA  0  tA
      208.67.222.222@853  .  ttl  844  ping  876  var  1823  rtt  8168  rto

And here [2] are a small list of public servers that support DoT

[1] - https://calomel.org/unbound_dns.html

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_recursive_name_server

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#132

Post by erentz » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #124

erentz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re making the same mistake everyone is making by assuming that the censor in this case is answerable to the Govt and can censor anything he/she likes or is told too. I understand because in the US system that is probably how it would work, it would be a federal agency, and the censor would be appointed by each new president and take his marching orders from the president. Your argument requires beforehand authori…

No, I am viewing this as a general world-wide trend, censoring for _any_ reason you can get people to agree with first. Then, when people agree to censorship in general, they won't fight it when it get's really bad, mainly because they won't know it's happening. (consider China) The actual "really bad" results of this is years away still. But this is how freedom of speech is stripped away. Under the guise of safety,…

Youre responding to a thread about the New Zealand mosque attacks and the Office of Film and Literatures classification of this video as objectionable and expressing concern that this can be used for political purposes to quell dissenting political opinions, which I have explained why that can’t be used that way in NZ and you’re mistaken in your understanding of how censorship works in NZ. Now you say you’re concerned about censorship as a concept generally in far away historical and authoritarian regimes. These things do not follow and your concern has no relation to this thread. It’s borderline bait.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#133

Post by mindslight » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 7:54 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #130

mindslight wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, I feel like seeing the plain video without commentary would take away a lot of the glamor from these events. See the mood change of Black Mirror ep01 after he actually fucks the pig. (from a USian perspective) Instead, we let the media setup a vibrant tradeoff of emotional tourism versus steering away from direct confrontation. Just enough so that indulging can be written off as mourning rather than th…

From those who have watched it, apparently he does provide his own commentary, both occasionally correctly and through his choice of music.

(I think you may have autocorrected from "directly")

Is his narrative actually compelling though? Or does it just come off as misguided/pathetic/wrong/etc? By without commentary, I really mean unmediated by talking heads transmuting it into something to drive their own popularity.

I haven't read much about this actual event, because I think every visit given to news articles just contributes to their incentives of creating a spectacle. I'm not exactly looking to engage in emotional tourism right now, but perhaps I'll have to put my theory to the test on myself.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#134

Post by m23khan » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

nothal wrote: post #103

m23khan wrote: post #45

despicable websites such as rotten.com and liveleak should also be banned -- they really mess up human brain. Some reddit subreddits are extremely graphic and twisted too.

Should we maintain websites displaying photographic evidence of the holocaust? The Vietnam war? Combat footage from Iraq/Afganistan?

there is a difference -- platforms which show case human misery, violence, gore and carnage for sake of entertainment and/or profit making should be banned.

Overall, even web search engines and ISPs need to be vigilant during indexing/hosting of websites and come up with some method of periodic review of websites being visited/hosted and tag them as appropriate or non appropriate.

Somebody profiting from somebody's death or misery or injury is not cool and goes against the very grain of civility.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#135

Post by erentz » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #57

ars wrote: post #29

I watched this "illegal" video. And not only do I think it should not be illegal, I think watching it should be almost mandatory ! Package it with a safety curriculum, and people should watch it to know what to do. In particular: For the most part, those people in the video who ran, lived, those who tried to drop low, or froze up, died. (There were a couple of exceptions.) Additionally, one guy tried to attack the sh…

You could have a point; as a reference, airline passengers reputedly put up a lot more fight against hijackers post-9/11. I don't want to watch the video- but perhaps a similar sort of shift in mindset could be brought about for these kinds of attacks, whether that be more running or more teaming up to fight back.

The need to see a video is proven wrong by your very example: Passengers on 9/11 already started putting up a flight before they’d seen the video, after they heard on their cell phones from loved ones what had happened to the other flights the passengers knew they had to fight back leading to the Pennsylvania crash.

Prior to this established hijacking procedure and expectation was cooperate, you’ll be flowen to some foreign country. There’ll be a demand for such and such prisoners to be released. A negotiation. Eventually the passengers will be released. As soon as people knew the planes were being used as weapons and this wasn’t the hijackings of past the fought back.

It didn’t require video.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#136

Post by RobertRoberts » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

erentz wrote: post #132

RobertRoberts wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am viewing this as a general world-wide trend, censoring for _any_ reason you can get people to agree with first. Then, when people agree to censorship in general, they won't fight it when it get's really bad, mainly because they won't know it's happening. (consider China) The actual "really bad" results of this is years away still. But this is how freedom of speech is stripped away. Under the guise of safety,…

Youre responding to a thread about the New Zealand mosque attacks and the Office of Film and Literatures classification of this video as objectionable and expressing concern that this can be used for political purposes to quell dissenting political opinions, which I have explained why that can’t be used that way in NZ and you’re mistaken in your understanding of how censorship works in NZ. Now you say you’re concerne…

This is _big_ news in the US, the place I feel confident claiming is the last bastion of free speech. (if there is such a thing)

Viewing this as a NZ only issue is thinking small. There's discussions about free speech in the US and all over the world about this issue.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#137

Post by identity-haver » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #20

Seems kinda easy to block niche sites like *chan for hosting the video. Politicians and regulators can stand up and say they "did something." When they block Facebook for streaming it live, then I'll be impressed.

Someone at Facebook is going to have to train an "is streamer committing a mass murder" neural net now, kind of like the "is dude whipping out his genitals" ones that are already around.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#138

Post by erentz » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 8:40 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #136

erentz wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youre responding to a thread about the New Zealand mosque attacks and the Office of Film and Literatures classification of this video as objectionable and expressing concern that this can be used for political purposes to quell dissenting political opinions, which I have explained why that can’t be used that way in NZ and you’re mistaken in your understanding of how censorship works in NZ. Now you say you’re concerne…

This is _big_ news in the US, the place I feel confident claiming is the last bastion of free speech. (if there is such a thing) Viewing this as a NZ only issue is thinking small. There's discussions about free speech in the US and all over the world about this issue.

You said:

> This is a great tool for stifling opposing politics of _any_ kind. And seems like the easiest way to start an oppressive tyranny than a method of stopping terrorist propaganda.

You’re talking about a tool in New Zealand you clearly knew nothing about but presumed was some kind of censorship you’d find in a dictatorship. You’ve been corrected on that. Then your concern was far away authoritarian regimes. Now your concern is the US and yet you bring up nothing related to how New Zealand’s Office of Film and Literature’s classification applies to potential US pathways into tyranny.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#139

Post by Nadya » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #84

rc_kas wrote: post #63

I hate 4chan so much, its a diseased cesspool of morons. However, I hate the idea blocking them. Its such a slippery slope from censorship of bad websites to moving to censorship of good websites that the government does not like. Edit: Also, facebook pro-actively took down the video as soon as they became aware.

>Its such a slippery slope from censorship of bad websites to moving to censorship of good websites that the government does not like. Is it really, though, or do people just like the slippery slope fallacy a bit too much? Does everyone really think that if a government bans 4chan, no one and nothing is going to stop them from banning everything else because there's precedent now and nothing can be done? That's not h…

The "it's a slippery slope fallacy to assume that censorship of bad things will lead to censoring good things" would be a more compelling argument if we didn't have thousands of years of human history proving that it happens again and again.

"Oh - don't worry, this time in human history it won't be a slippery slope!" is not a very compelling argument when we have historical precedent of the opposite being true time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#140

Post by sexydefinesher » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

Nadya wrote: post #89

lumberjack wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

m00t had taken action when it was necessary in the past. m00t had already banned the offending parties once. Then he reinstated them and gave them a containment board. In retrospect this did not work so well. The containment board became an ever radicalized echo chamber and worst, it did not contain anything. Since Hiro took over it seems like he has ignored the issue. This was pre-neonazi days. /news/ and /pol/ were…

There was never a /news/ "back then", it was created in 2015 and is a text board. There was only /new/ and /new/ and /pol/ never co-existed. /pol/ was created after /new/ was removed because moot was sick of /new/ going constantly off-topic with racism and bigotry. The decision was made to more or less cease moderation of /new/, rename it to /pol/, and use it as a containment board. Also people need to realize chan c…

There is no debate on 4chan /pol/, its an echo chamber that keeps fueling the flames of hate (Remember Dylann Roof?). Why dont you try and make a thread there and argue that muslims shouldn't be shot and report back here with results?