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After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

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Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#11

Post by hemogloben »

dragontamer wrote: post #9
x38iq84n wrote: post #2

I have always wondered... Does the AP have some higher-level notion of object permanence, continuity (road behind a horizon or after a curve) and things like that? Does it track a pedestrian that is momentarily hidden behind an obstacle and will probably reemerge in a second or two on the other side? Does it expect that kids may run after that ball that just flew from behind a car? Does it continuously track and impr…

I don't think neural networks are wired to "remember" things. In theory, they could be hooked up that way. But your typical convolutional neural network is looking at things frame-by-frame. In theory, ANNs could have an output layer that passes data from one frame to another frame to assist things. But there's no real programming to "hardcode" something like object permanence into an ANN. You pretty much throw a bunc…

NNs are just the first step in the pipeline. Their outputs (detected objects, segmentation, etc) will be piped into other software that builds higher level models.

Considering the path-planning requirements I would be absolutely shocked if Autopilot wasn't build history models and estimated paths for objects around the vehicle (other cars etc).

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#15

Post by anth_anm »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #10
kitsunesoba wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but is there a way that could happen without slowing the process to a crawl? Depending on what’s involved it could easily push the gap between updates from months to years.

This is a feature, not a bug, and should be expected in life critical systems. Would you want Boeing to push updates out as frequently as Tesla does with the same sparse release notes Tesla provides (“bug fixes”) when safety system functionality is modified? Disclaimer: I own a Model S

Imagine if Boeing got away with just pushing a software update to the 737 MAX8 and saying "it's fixed now".

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#16

Post by bsaul »

I wonder how do unit tests work with NN (or if they're even a relevant concept at all).

You could replay some testing video frames and make sure the objects are correctly identified, but i suppose that's already what training is about...

If an issue like that resurface, does it mean that the original frames leading to the 2018 accident aren't part of the training (or at least frames from someone driving in this kind of scenario) ?

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#17

Post by CamperBob2 »

anth_anm wrote: post #15
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a feature, not a bug, and should be expected in life critical systems. Would you want Boeing to push updates out as frequently as Tesla does with the same sparse release notes Tesla provides (“bug fixes”) when safety system functionality is modified? Disclaimer: I own a Model S

Imagine if Boeing got away with just pushing a software update to the 737 MAX8 and saying "it's fixed now".

Well, it might have prevented the second crash if they had treated the matter with a bit more urgency. Depends on whether the two incidents really had a common cause, which is looking like the case.

Of course it's also looking like they should have grounded the fleet after the first crash, given the history of the aircraft prior to its last flight.

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#18

Post by notfromhere »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #8
sschueller wrote: post #4

Eventually we need the NTSB to certify updates before they are pushed out over the air. Similar to what the FAA does. These OTA updates are not ok for large machinery and endagers not only the Tesla driver but all others on the road.

I agree, but is there a way that could happen without slowing the process to a crawl? Depending on what’s involved it could easily push the gap between updates from months to years.

do you want faster updates or a machine that doesn't inadvertently kill you? because for life-critical systems you really can't do both

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#19

Post by notfromhere »

FreedomToCreate wrote: post #6

Tesla can only really gather depth data from there radars, while the cameras operate a DNN to detect features and make adjustments for steering and speed based on fusing those two pieces of data together. An error in the radar or the DNN detecting features incorrectly because of lighting, road color change or object on the road which the model was not trained on, can cause problems like this.

if it came back after an update, wouldn't it be the issue of the algorithm training itself incorrectly?

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#20

Post by Scoundreller »

That’s a very strange way to close a highway.

Where are the blinkenlights? The words? The flashing arrows? The plastic jersey barriers?

The buckets full of sand or water?

The repainted lines directing you to the right?

Can’t tell if this is temporary or long-term closure, but if it’s a multi month thing, I would expect more “Don’t you dare fork to the left” signalling.

Not everyone is a local.

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