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Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

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Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#121

Post by eropple »

praneshp wrote: post #111
duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

> , we had a limit on how many units could rent out at once anyway so they never were going to have enough numbers What does this mean? If I owned a house in your neighborhood and had to move away for work, my options are to sell the house, or get on a waitlist till the number of houses rented out reduces? As someone that's never owned a house, that sounds like a shitty rule that should be disrupted. I'm assuming the…

It certainly sounds like he's talking about a condo association ("unit"), not an HOA, which tend to care about different concerns. Rules like this make it hard for an owner to not be aware of negative impacts that their property is inflicting on their co-owners. You know--the other people involved in the con-dominium. Words are fun and educational, aren't they?

So, yes, there is a positive side. Most people have lived in places with absentee landlords. Many people don't want a preponderance of absentee landlord properties in a place where there is such direct impact from doing so; the thinking goes that if you rent out a house across the street from me, they might be annoying, but if you rent out a condo unit above mine, your tenants might flood my apartment because they didn't tell you the toilet had problems. Important difference.

If you don't like that, don't buy into a condo association that does it. It is extremely rare for a rental-limit rule to be put in place these days, so in practice you should know going in whether those rules are in place. If by some chance you live in the one in a thousand that does try to put those rules in place today, sell and move on.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#122

Post by dcosson »

praneshp wrote: post #111
duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

> , we had a limit on how many units could rent out at once anyway so they never were going to have enough numbers What does this mean? If I owned a house in your neighborhood and had to move away for work, my options are to sell the house, or get on a waitlist till the number of houses rented out reduces? As someone that's never owned a house, that sounds like a shitty rule that should be disrupted. I'm assuming the…

The "positive side" for the homeowners is pretty obvious - it lets them keep anyone that's not one of them out of the neighborhood. I don't know the specifics of this particular neighborhood, but if it's anything like the vast majority of America, it likely is a very shitty rule that should be disrupted.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#123

Post by Tsubasachan »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #57
matchbok wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because my neighborhood is littered with mini-hotels and AirBnb encourages this behavior.

Are they bothering you more than non-registered cars in people's yards bothers the HOA type of people? On some level people have the right to do whatever they please with their property. That's kind of the point of ownership to begin with.

Its often not even their property.

Get a social housing unit, pay €500 per month. Rent it out for €90 per day on AirBNB. Profit.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#124

Post by stuaxo »

duxup wrote: post #65
koboll wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the end it was just a horrible situation to open up what was a hotel, right in the middle of our association / neighborhood. By joining a HOA, you've delegated away to the collective the right to dictate to your neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property. In your case, the system worked - because you are in a HOA. If people want to exert that kind of collectivist control over their neighbors, th…

> that's the kind of organization they should be buying homes in Or maybe buy in a city that makes the decision to not allow that kind of rental? I don't see a significant difference in a step up from the association I was in where you deemed that ok, to a city making the same decision.

People should uproot and move just because AirBnB is setting up ?

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#125

Post by gbacon »

CPLX wrote: post #110
koboll wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the end it was just a horrible situation to open up what was a hotel, right in the middle of our association / neighborhood. By joining a HOA, you've delegated away to the collective the right to dictate to your neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property. In your case, the system worked - because you are in a HOA. If people want to exert that kind of collectivist control over their neighbors, th…

> But outside of that structure, what gives someone the right to dictate to their neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property? This is literally the core of the concept of zoning. If you don't like it work against zoning laws, but there's generally a consensus on the broader topic here.

koboll is almost certainly familiar with the concept of zoning. Your reply is non-responsive to the question.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#126

Post by eropple »

dcosson wrote: post #113
duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

I mean, this just sounds to me like a pitch for AirBnB. They managed to solve this exact problem you're complaining about via the rating system and guests being attached to their real identity. The vast majority of AirBnB guests are very respectful and reasonable. As for your tight local control, fuck that. No, you shouldn't get to decide exactly what happens in your neighborhood just because you got there first. You…

I understand that there is this odd notion that every man is sui generis and all, but you live in a society.

You can change the property under the purview of the association. It would be stupid to assert that you cannot. But you must win a vote to do so--and you agree to adhere to the results of association votes by buying into the property and into the association.

Such positive tyranny one must endure. Makes my heart break. But you have a way out! You can always choose...to not buy a place with a condo association or HOA.

(I didn't. Single-family home. Would recommend!)

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#127

Post by fifnir »

jstanley wrote: post #53
fifnir wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's allow richer-than-us foreigners to come to our city, buy all the houses, and then keep them empty to make tax-free money through air-bnb. Fuck the locals, there's tourists that want to enjoy the sun in the summer and arabs that need to invest their petrol dollars.

> keep them empty to make tax-free money through air-bnb. You don't make a lot of money through AirBnB if you are keeping the place empty.

But you can make more per month than renting, even if it's empty for most of the days.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#128

Post by chimeracoder »

dcosson wrote: post #113
duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

I mean, this just sounds to me like a pitch for AirBnB. They managed to solve this exact problem you're complaining about via the rating system and guests being attached to their real identity. The vast majority of AirBnB guests are very respectful and reasonable. As for your tight local control, fuck that. No, you shouldn't get to decide exactly what happens in your neighborhood just because you got there first. You…

> I mean, this just sounds to me like a pitch for AirBnB. They managed to solve this exact problem you're complaining about via the rating system and guests being attached to their real identity. The vast majority of AirBnB guests are very respectful and reasonable.

They have not solved this problem at all. I lived next door to an illegal AirBNB (all short-term whole-apartment rentals are illegal in NYC).

It was a nightmare, and there's nothing I could do about it. AirBNB does not consider me a customer and has no contractual relationship with me. They didn't provide any way to determine the owner's listing when you know the address, and even if I had, there's no formal way to lodge a complaint against the owner.

The only way a neighbor can take action against their problematic AirBNB neighbor is to report them to the city government.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#129

Post by CharlesColeman »

friedman23 wrote: post #109
Juliate wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But outside of that structure, what gives someone the right to dictate to their neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property? Ha. Don't come in Europe cities. There _are_ regulations in cities about that. And rightly so.

> And rightly so. Here come the emotionally and ideologically charged appeals to authority.

> Here come the emotionally and ideologically charged appeals to authority.

Property rights are usually a literal appeal to authority (e.g. a community or a government).

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