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Google hit with €1.5B fine from EU over advertising

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Re: Google hit with €1.5B fine from EU over advertising

#191

Post by klmr »

eggy wrote: post #157
klmr wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters, this fine isn’t about browsers, it’s about AdSense. Apart from that, we can discuss the pros and cons of multinational treaty cooperations until we’re blue in the face but at the very least the EU in principle follows a democratic postulate, meaning that its citizens have decision power. Google is fundamentally unaccountable to anybody but its largest shareholders. If you fear democratically steered tre…

I am not as optimistic on the EU as you are. Reading 1984, before 1984, and growing up during the Cold War, definitely has shaped my thoughts on some of this, especially a single state or one-world government. A pan-European state, with one flag, it's own anthem, and the desire for a single army doesn't pass my sniff test of just being a multinational treaty cooperation, or a "democratically steered treaty union" as…

> Trotsky pushed for a communist, soviet united states of Europe in 1923.

Right, but what does this have to do with anything? The only thing in common is that both have “Europe” in the name (and I’m not even sure that was part of Trotsky’s vision). If a union of states scares you, the USA must be your waking nightmare. If you’ve indeed read 1984 you’ll notice that there are literally no parallels between that scenario and the history of the EEC and EU.

Re: Google hit with €1.5B fine from EU over advertising

#193

Post by pdkl95 »

Nasrudith wrote: post #140
pdkl95 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest that anybody downvoting this read this[1] article for a surprisingly comprehensive overview of how Google et al are ruining democracy and (mostly-)free society as they shift our economy from the traditional forms of capitalism that were built on mass-production, finance, etc into ^surveillance capitalism^ based on omnipresent surveillance and behavioral manipulation. The social, political, and economic dama…

Survallience capitalism is a troubling trend and they may share blame for participation but blaming Google for it /existing/ is just disingenuous scapegoating. Long before Google was a thing stores were trying to get addresses and advertisers were trying to manipulate behavior and they have literally nothing to do with industrial outsourcing. Former intelligence agents have gotten into business intelligence as well e…

> blaming Google for it /existing/ is just disingenuous scapegoating

I never said they created it; Google, FB, etc, are the "leading forces pushing the world" into a new type of economy. It almost certainly wo9uld exist without Google involvement, but the are involved and the damage from their business model is real.

> literally nothing to do with industrial outsourcing.

I don't see how this is in any way related to surveillance capitalism.

> counting cars in factory lots from public spaces to analyse worker demand and thus production

You're talking about specific examples of surveillance, which are only tangentially related to surveillance capitalism. As the article linked above explains, surveillance capitalism is an economic system with a new form of market. Capitalism has had many forms: mercantilism, factory and mass-production capitalism, financialization, etc. Each of these created unique types of market that incentivized different types of business practices.

An example of the problem from the previous [1] that illustrates the kind of economic change that Google/etc are causing:

>> Three or four months ago, the CEO of Ford says there’s a global auto slump, it’s really hard to sell cars, but we’re getting downgraded in the markets. He says, we want price-to-earnings ratios like Google and Facebook. How do we do that? We’re going to become a data company. We got 100 million people driving around in Ford vehicles. And what we’re gonna do is, we’re gonna now figure out how to get all the data out of this driving experience.

The problem isn't minutia like counting cars in a factory lot or a business trying to advertise to their customers; this is about creating an economic system that gives the most profit to whoever creates the most invasive surveillance so they can sell your pattern-of-life.

Re: Google hit with €1.5B fine from EU over advertising

#194

Post by mtgx »

kierenj wrote: post #35

I was wondering where funds from such a fine go: "Fines imposed on companies found in breach of EU antitrust rules are paid into the general EU budget. This money is not earmarked for particular expenses, but Member States' contributions to the EU budget for the following year are reduced accordingly. The fines therefore help to finance the EU and reduce the burden for taxpayers."

Where did you expect them to go?

Re: Google hit with €1.5B fine from EU over advertising

#195

Post by yeahitslikethat »

zaroth wrote: post #161

This is not for AdSense on Google.com, this is for third-party sites with a search feature showing search ads to their own customers. A third-party site who wants to show ads in their own search results could partner with Google to include AdSense ads in their own results. The Google contract originally required exclusivity, and then was changed to require Google ads to be more prominent. In the context of the market…

As long as the punishment for the crime is less than the crime itself, crime will perpetuate.

If you steal 1.000,00€ from a bank, they don't fine you 1€. No. They send you to jail for years.

Re: Google hit with €1.5B fine from EU over advertising

#198

Post by consp »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #57
b3lvedere wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge each country within the EU can also seperately fine Google. It could add up very quickly. Personally i also think getting fined constantly is not a reliable business model. :)

It's a risk / reward thing, if getting fined for less than what they earned (both in actual money and in removing competition from the equation) then it's worth the risk.

You forgot to state the follow up: these fines require changes, and lacking changes get higher very quickly. Losing 1/3 of you advertisement-market is not profitable either if it gets to that.

Re: Google hit with €1.5B fine from EU over advertising

#199

Post by yeahitslikethat »

IgorPartola wrote: post #98
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this with the knowledge they’ve been fine $x billion every year for the past 3 years (at least?)? At what point does Big Corp run out of things to abuse? If the fines just become a cost of doing business the finance and legal teams can probably get creative and invent new ways of mashing up old abuses over time. I think the underlying theme here, then, is that the fines are necessary but not suff…

This is why at some point executives need to face potential prison time. The EU should put the requirements to stop the abuse and if next year the change hasn’t taken place, investigate individuals responsible.

That's right. They say corporations are people too, however corporations aren't sent to jail. They aren't barred from voting. They have more rights than human people.

Imagine if Google went to jail and had to work for 13 cents an hour making license plates.

Re: Google hit with €1.5B fine from EU over advertising

#200

Post by yeahitslikethat »

swift532 wrote: post #109
metafunctor wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I think 10x the fine and you're really starting to hurt.

50% of revenue sounds more like chopping off an arm or a leg than starting to hurt.

That's exactly what needs to happen. Google needs to lose a leg or an arm. Something that significant, but in corporate terms. Like maybe force them to divest of European holdings. Separate that business from North American operations. Or just exile then from Europe all together.
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