Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gyroscopes by themselves can not sense the orientation of a body moving through three dimensions.
What is that[0] then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_indicator
Attitude != Angle of Attack.
Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
91–100 of 272 posts
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#92What I don't understand whenever I read anything related to the MCAS system is why does it not check if the plane is in a dangerous nose dive using other sensors the plane might have? Does the average plane not have a gyroscope? My sub 500 dollar phone has both a gyroscope and an inertial measurement unit (accelerometer).
Gyroscopes by themselves can not sense the orientation of a body moving through three dimensions.
False. A gyroscope can be used to determine the orientation of a body.
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#93I'm trying to imagine the horror the pilots (and passengers) were feeling. Imagine your car slowly starting to shift sideways into incoming traffic, and no matter how hard you pull the steering wheel, you can't get it back. Horrifying.
This is why I refuse to listen to these things when they're released. The thought of eavesdropping in on someone's frantic hopeless fight for survival just doesn't sit right with me.
Cockpit voice recordings are never released. You may be thinking of recordings of conversations with ATC.
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Lion Air directive has instructions on page 41 of their preliminary report that include: 5. If the runaway continues after the autopilot is disengaged: STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches (both) ... CUTOUT If the runaway continues: Stabilizer trim wheel .... *Grasp and hold* This may be an overabundance of caution, or to cover other runaway events, but it reads like "you may need to physically fight the computer even when…
That's incorrect, these have haptic feedback, once you grasp it, it's not going to fight you. It looks for resistance and if it sees the resistance it doesn't continue.
Ah, Okay, thanks. What remaining automation would be driving the trim wheel in this case that grab-and-hold would countermand?
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#95One of the factors that has been quickly glossed over is the low level of experience of some of the pilots in both the Indonesian and Ethopian accidents. In the USA, due to much higher levels of experience pilots have been correcting for the MCAS actions effectively and complaining about it to NASA (in order to avoid being branded as whistle-blowers by their airlines).
How would it even be possible for US pilots to sustainably have „much higher levels of experience“? Do non-US pilots fly only two days a week? Do they all die before age 40? This stereotype of dingy third-world airlines with incompetent, untrained pilots borders on racism. At the very least, one should notice that flying the world’s newest airliner in significant numbers is incompatible with one‘s preconceptions.
The U.S. is more wealthy and has a large private aviation community because private individuals can afford to buy and are permitted to fly their own small planes. As s result, it is easier for Americans to build up experience as aviators before going to work for an airline.
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#96>> On the same aircraft the evening before the crash, a captain at Lion Air’s full-service sister carrier, Batik Air, was riding along in the cockpit and solved the similar flight control problems, two of the sources said. His presence on that flight, first reported by Bloomberg, was not disclosed in the preliminary report.
Like that bug that there's only one person in the company who knows about and how to fix it, but she's always working on something else? That's just awful.
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#97One of the factors that has been quickly glossed over is the low level of experience of some of the pilots in both the Indonesian and Ethopian accidents. In the USA, due to much higher levels of experience pilots have been correcting for the MCAS actions effectively and complaining about it to NASA (in order to avoid being branded as whistle-blowers by their airlines).
How would it even be possible for US pilots to sustainably have „much higher levels of experience“? Do non-US pilots fly only two days a week? Do they all die before age 40? This stereotype of dingy third-world airlines with incompetent, untrained pilots borders on racism. At the very least, one should notice that flying the world’s newest airliner in significant numbers is incompatible with one‘s preconceptions.
Training in simulators costs money. Just flying doesn’t prepare you for dealing with these rare situations, because most of it is autopilot/by the book.
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Lion Air directive has instructions on page 41 of their preliminary report that include: 5. If the runaway continues after the autopilot is disengaged: STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches (both) ... CUTOUT If the runaway continues: Stabilizer trim wheel .... *Grasp and hold* This may be an overabundance of caution, or to cover other runaway events, but it reads like "you may need to physically fight the computer even when…
That's incorrect, these have haptic feedback, once you grasp it, it's not going to fight you. It looks for resistance and if it sees the resistance it doesn't continue.
You are still fighting it, aren't you?
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#99The thing I don't understand about that MCAS system is why it would continue to drive the nose of the plane down even when the pilot is reefing on the stick to pull up. The cruise control in my car automatically disengages when I hit the brakes, it doesn't continue to accelerate to keep the car going 60 while I am jamming on the brakes, in an emergency, I don't have time to find the off switch. Similarly, I would thi…
> why it would continue to drive the nose of the plane down even when the pilot is reefing on the stick to pull up
well this other crash was caused by a pilot puling up a plane all the way to its ceiling and stalling it, so there's that, so things can go wrong whether if you do and if you don't allow for easy control overrides.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447#Third_in...
the trick seems to find the right balance to relinquish control only when appropriate, so it seems that proper documentation, checklists, training and maintenance are crucial.
instead looks like to have had deficiencies in all those elements, one way or another (except the checklist itself which wasn't followed).
Re: Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'll note in that video, the left-hand pilot has a headset on, presumably the right-hand pilot does too. Headsets are seen in other videos [1] of the cockpit. So even if the spinning trim wheels make noise, they may not have heard it. (My google image search shows some pilots wearing two-ear headsets, some wearing one-ear headsets, some wearing two-ear headsets with side not on their ear, and some not wearing heads…
I don't understand do you think they're listening to music or something? Having a headset on doesn't stop you hearing noises in a cockpit. How did you think all the other verbal alarms and callouts worked if they can't hear anything?
I was thinking the same thing.
I wear earplugs all day in a metal fabrication workshop.
The earplugs certainly don’t prevent you from hearing anything.