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In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#151
post #36
post #17

> Once the students were selected, the researchers then administered the Major Field Test in Computer Science, an exam that was developed by the U.S. Educational Testing Service and is regularly updated. There is a huge variation among countries in how subjects are taught and tested. I would like to add that many of my peers have resorted to streamlining for whiteboard interviews, and unsurprisingly, they end up with…

I took a look at the sample questions for the test, having never heard of it. It's 66 multiple choice questions, and many of them seem like “gotcha” questions where one of the answers is an off-by-one error or something like that. And how about this lovely question: > A personal identification number that opens a certain lock consists of a sequence of 3 DIFFERENT digits from 0 though 9, inclusive. How many possible P…

[deleted]

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking of the problem as a nested for loop it's intuitive to see how you get 1000 combinations without the numbers being unique but I dont see how to get 720 combinations as the answer when each digit is different. Can you explain where 720 combinations comes from in the context I mentioned?

for i = 1-10 for j = 1-10 if i == j break for k = 1-10 if i == j or i == k break log(i,j,k) (I don't understand HN formatting still)

    #!/usr/bin/python
    r = [(i,j,k) for i in range(10) for j in range(10) for k in range(10) if i!=j and i!=k and j!=k]
    print(len(r))

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#153

Yet, Russia consistently dominates programming competitions, which strongly suggests that a multiple choice exam may not actually be representative of real world skills https://www.salon.com/2017/06/18/russian-students-dominate-a...

Are you saying programming competitions are representative of "real world skills"? There's certainly a correlation in the same way the exam is but you'd be hard-pressed to say more than that.

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#154
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess people will be blind to information that disagrees with them. They DO discuss it, it's right there at the end: >In every country, the men came out ahead; the gap overall was smallest in China, and biggest in the U.S. But if you are looking at a difference of between gender (0.4) and thinking you'd rather hear them talk about that than the difference between nationality ( double that at 0.8) then you clearly a…

During my CS studies, a considerable number of male students were computer geeks who were playing with computers pre-uni. Female students, OTOH, were 100% oblivious of any fundamental concepts (ex. what is programming). That could explain the disparity - they had a lot of catching up to do, esp. at the beginning.

It wasn't 100% at all. If anything, I found that the only female students were the computer nerds and there were almost no "CS-curious" women enrolling.

I'd also then go on to say in my experience the student who went into a CS program for the stability and potential money "CS-curious" over passion for it might do better on scholastic tests of computer science while being less capable of actually programming well.

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#155

Yet, Russia consistently dominates programming competitions, which strongly suggests that a multiple choice exam may not actually be representative of real world skills https://www.salon.com/2017/06/18/russian-students-dominate-a...

Programming competitions are to programming as fencing is to sword-fighting.

I'm not trying to denegrate people who compete in programming competitions—they require hard work and talent like any competition, but it is a very specific set of skills that are developed which are different from real-world programming.

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#156
post #36
post #17

> Once the students were selected, the researchers then administered the Major Field Test in Computer Science, an exam that was developed by the U.S. Educational Testing Service and is regularly updated. There is a huge variation among countries in how subjects are taught and tested. I would like to add that many of my peers have resorted to streamlining for whiteboard interviews, and unsurprisingly, they end up with…

I took a look at the sample questions for the test, having never heard of it. It's 66 multiple choice questions, and many of them seem like “gotcha” questions where one of the answers is an off-by-one error or something like that. And how about this lovely question: > A personal identification number that opens a certain lock consists of a sequence of 3 DIFFERENT digits from 0 though 9, inclusive. How many possible P…

Totally agree with what you say about multiple choice programming tests. I have a PhD in computer science and have worked as a programmer for over a decade. For fun, I took a practice AP CS exam with my son, which had similar multiple choice questions.

I did not get 100%. I actually thought the exam was pretty good, but it tested something like 1% of the skills I use as a working programmer. Skills like API design, software architecture, documenting code, and yes even naming variables, which I think are important to writing quality code.

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#157
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a limitation from the mechanics of the mechanism used. Including such a restriction on an electronic PIN is stupid, but I've seen enough idiotic password policies that I don't doubt someone has done it. For example, my bank (at least 2 months ago, haven't tested recently) makes no distinction between case of letters, so 'aaa' = 'aAa' = 'AAA'.

It's considerably worse when you see bizarre password restrictions because they usually mean the password is stored in plaintext. For example, your bank definitely is doing that. Don't use that same password for anything else!

Over the phone with my bank and my cabal company I've had them ask me multiple times to confirm my PIN or give the answer to my security question. I'm shocked that they will store everything in plain text like that AND give a large number of their employees access to it.

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny. Yeah I totally would have missed the word "different"... does such a lock even exist in the real world?

I would prefer it be more explicit and say, "each digit can only be used once". Different can be interpreted in multiple ways. Reminds me of a physics test where the question is something like: Susie is almost at her house and comes to a stop in 4 seconds. What was her acceleration.

The only other interpretation that is obvious to me is "not all of the digits can be the same", but 990 is not an available answer.

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#159
post #24

> making sure that both the educational institutions and students enrolled at those schools were statistically representative of schools and computer science students throughout the respective nations. Given the typical CS student body, this basically means Indian, Chinese, and Russian students studying at US universities performed better than those studying at Indian, Chinese, and Russian universities... Either beca…

It's both. A social norm sustains itself because if most of the people I want to be like are doing it (correlation), then I will do it (causation) too, unless I've put a lot of extra thought in and made a conscious decision to do something else. The social animal's default mode is to follow the herd. "The herd" could have even started out as the Texas Sharpshooter's Fallacy (random correlation), but now people are mo…

I don’t think this says anything about teaching quality in US, to be honest. It says more about wealth. We are a much wealthier country and the smartest and wealthiest of the other countries study here. Teaching quality at many elite universities is notoriously horrible. The quality of outcomes of their students is more related to their selection of the top individuals.

Re: In a study of senior CS majors, U.S. students are tops in skills

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking of the problem as a nested for loop it's intuitive to see how you get 1000 combinations without the numbers being unique but I dont see how to get 720 combinations as the answer when each digit is different. Can you explain where 720 combinations comes from in the context I mentioned?

10 * 9 * 8 The first time you pick, you have 10 different numbers to choose from, the second time, 9, the third time 8.

Or if you are like me (and a bit stupid):

1000 = all possible combinations from 000 to 999.

less 10 combinations with all numbers identical is 990.

now there are three patterns for numbers to be identical left that need to be taken out: 00x 0x0 x00. The x can be replaced with all digits != 0 in this example, so thats 3 (patterns) x 9 ('x' digits) = 27. That times 10 digits that can have double patterns is 270.

1000 - 10 - 270 = 720.

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