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Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

theatlantic.com

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Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#71
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Okay, just make life harder for everybody. Nice. If you spend less on one thing, you can spend more on other things (or tax less), so I don't see how that follows. > How does subsidizing education, thus creating more college graduates, increase the value of a degree? I would think about it like this instead: subsidizing education lowers the cost, making it more attractive than it otherwise would be compared to the…

What I mean by the value, is what employers are willing to pay. Even Kaplan admits that college graduates get paid more. The subsidy should drive more people into college, but depress the wages of college graduates. In fact, Kaplan admits that college increases pay more than it increases productivity -- that it benefits graduates more than it benefits countries as a whole, suggesting that something about college educ…

> What I mean by the value, is what employers are willing to pay. Even Kaplan admits that college graduates get paid more. The subsidy should drive more people into college, but depress the wages of college graduates.

The fact that college graduates get paid more seems adequately explained by the signalling model he presents. How else do you explain the big pay differences for college graduates vs people who dropped out early? They are bigger than you'd expect from just skill/knowledge gain.

> it benefits graduates more than it benefits countries as a whole, suggesting that something about college education enables people to keep more of their own production.

Kaplan would agree would you there, he thinks it makes sense for individuals now to go to college, but as a society it doesn't make sense to subsidize, because it is mostly just signalling, and there are cheaper ways to achieve that.

An analogy he uses is that say you are at a movie theater, and you could see better if you stood. It could be true, but it doesn't follow that everyone could see better if everyone stood.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#72
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you get a license, it will pay about $125/hour. Four year apprenticeship first, though. There is a general shortage of elevator mechanics, so go for it.

I'll admit I don't know the first thing about escalator repair but I'm confident that a 4 year apprenticeship is absurd. Perhaps that's the real problem. The rules should be amended such that you can get an escalator repair license in 60 days. Problem solved.

"The rules should be amended such that you can get an escalator repair license in 60 days."

There are real risks fucking up an elevator.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/27/china/chinese-mother-killed-e...

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#73
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you get a license, it will pay about $125/hour. Four year apprenticeship first, though. There is a general shortage of elevator mechanics, so go for it.

I'll admit I don't know the first thing about escalator repair but I'm confident that a 4 year apprenticeship is absurd. Perhaps that's the real problem. The rules should be amended such that you can get an escalator repair license in 60 days. Problem solved.

> I'll admit I don't know the first thing about escalator repair

> The rules should be amended such that you can get an escalator repair license in 60 days.

Are you serious? These two statements of yours are only separated by a tiny sentence and obviously don't go well together.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#74
Having worked in tech for a few years in non-tech roles (analytics, product) I was looking for a code bootcamp because I didn’t want to look back and regret not deeply learning in a way that I felt like I could not do with self study alone.

I was skeptical but decided to start in SF earlier this month at the best rated/most reputable one I could find.

Obviously still early on, but I can say that I’m already grasping concepts better than I have just doing code academy/coursesa/reading SO alone on and off over the years.

It’s very possible there isn’t anything special specifically about this program, but if you basically commit to doing nothing but one thing for 16 hours a day (full day on site with projects, lectures, and then homework at night) plus weekend study for weekly tests then you will get better at anything.

Most colleges, though, aren’t really structured to support students to become good at just one thing. Though I’d also argue they aren’t necessarily designed to be job factories.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#75

I feel like everyone is doing social media marketing - or something equally useless while the world around us is breaking down. In the Bay Area, in San Francisco specifically, voters allocated funds to fix or replace every single Bart escalator. The best hope we have for completing this job is 7 years. Yes you read this correctly 7 years. The problem is we do not have enough licensed escalator mechanics to do the wor…

> Maybe more people should go into the trades - and not be funneled into higher education. We desperately need better infrastructure, more housing, tangible things. Not everyone is cut out for college. This is a common line of argument, but you will find that many tradesmen hope their children will go to college and get office jobs. The trades are hard on the body. Some trades are hazardous. An injury or medical prob…

In Switzerland, most people go into trades. Higher education is not seen ad having higher status in any way. Also, if you call a plumber to fix your broken sink, it's going to be really expensive.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes perfect knowledge. How many of you have ever stopped to check what an escalator mechanic makes?

I know several elevator mechanics. It pays well, very well. Also is a very dangerous job. Its a special kind of personality. You need to be mechanically handy, and have some electronics and software sense as well. I suspect if more people were aware of what it paid, they would go for it, if they were willing to put up with hazards.

So what does it pay then?

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we are going to collapse because of it. It's not that bad.

When we are electing the president by the same principle, I assure you that it is even worse than you can imagine. Societal collapse is imminent. Those who are comforted by their station in life always think they are living in a utopia. You are surrounded by fake smiles adorning people forced into subservience. At one time the myth that hard work and dedication would pay off in the end kept people in line, the "ameri…

well that escalated quickly

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming that the world is well ordered and that all things will balance like that, but it isn't. People don't see those jobs as options, they aren't even aware of the opportunities, and there is social stigma against being in the trades. Even if you make a nice living in the trades, you will take a hit to your social identity, making you less attractive to others. That's how toxic our culture is right now. P…

I assure you that if the job is paying enough people will drop any social stigma against trades jobs right away. I'll pick a paid off nice house over showing off to my friends. Although I'm sure the new house is much easier to show off than an office job. I have talked to people working hard physical labor jobs and they make hardly more than I do as a junior/mid level web dev but they are doing back breaking work 6 d…

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Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes perfect knowledge. How many of you have ever stopped to check what an escalator mechanic makes?

I know several elevator mechanics. It pays well, very well. Also is a very dangerous job. Its a special kind of personality. You need to be mechanically handy, and have some electronics and software sense as well. I suspect if more people were aware of what it paid, they would go for it, if they were willing to put up with hazards.

How much dues it pay?
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