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MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

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21–30 of 57 posts

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#21
post #20

What is the difference between TextWorld and a design system for interactive fiction games like Inform [1]? It seems to be that the former has natural language processing/semantics integrated, while the latter relies on a rather old school approach to text-based games. Or am I mistaken? [1] http://inform7.com/

I was wondering the same thing

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#22
post #2

> TextWorld requires Python 3 and only supports Linux and macOS systems at the moment. Truly, this is a new Microsoft.

Just goes to show how shitty Windows is. Impossible to program anything on Windows without it taking 5x as long.

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#23
post #2

> TextWorld requires Python 3 and only supports Linux and macOS systems at the moment. Truly, this is a new Microsoft.

Yes and No. I think they understand the very real limitations of Windows and how developers and power users hate it.

Let's compare and contrast the two. Linux has a usable shell that has GCC, Bash, Awk, dozens of specific commands that can be piped together, Perl, Python, TCL...etc all built-in and easily composable. Windows has well...CMD which is horrible, Batch files, VBScript (deprecated), VBA, and Powershell (a mess). If you install Visual Studio Tools you can get a C++ compiler and .NET languages like C# and VB.NET. Linux might have its faults, but the design is coherant and you can get stuff done. With Windows your only options are use a GUI or write at least a 1/2 page of code for something that is a oneliner in Linux. Powershell is a sometimes great (mostly meh) attempt to right this, but the everything is an object design is just simply more complex than the Unix philosophy of strings, pipes, and interoperable pieces. It seems like the Windows approach is to recognize the failing, while keeping in mind that a lot of desktop software uses Windows. So give developers Linux via WSL and people can still run their other Windows only software without Wine.

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#24
post #20

What is the difference between TextWorld and a design system for interactive fiction games like Inform [1]? It seems to be that the former has natural language processing/semantics integrated, while the latter relies on a rather old school approach to text-based games. Or am I mistaken? [1] http://inform7.com/

The main addition is the ability to randomly generate text-based games and a gym-like interface that the RL community is used to. TextWorld was originally (not sure if it is anymore) based on inform7!

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#25

Why not show a simple map of the room you're in, at least? It's a fairly simple change, but would make the orientation in space and remembering of location and few previous locations much more intuitive.

TextWorld environments have a render function that renders an SVG of the room and your inventory (https://github.com/Microsoft/TextWorld#extras)

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#26
post #20

What is the difference between TextWorld and a design system for interactive fiction games like Inform [1]? It seems to be that the former has natural language processing/semantics integrated, while the latter relies on a rather old school approach to text-based games. Or am I mistaken? [1] http://inform7.com/

Hi, I'm with the TextWorld team.

TextWorld actually uses Inform7. The framework first builds a game object (e.g. objects, locations, quests) according to some settings. Then, it converts it into Inform7 code before being compiled into a playable game. See https://imgur.com/oOcy5kk

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#27
post #25

Why not show a simple map of the room you're in, at least? It's a fairly simple change, but would make the orientation in space and remembering of location and few previous locations much more intuitive.

TextWorld environments have a render function that renders an SVG of the room and your inventory ( https://github.com/Microsoft/TextWorld#extras )

Also, those games are intended for Reinforcement Learning agents, not Humans.

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#28
post #2

> TextWorld requires Python 3 and only supports Linux and macOS systems at the moment. Truly, this is a new Microsoft.

Yes and No. I think they understand the very real limitations of Windows and how developers and power users hate it. Let's compare and contrast the two. Linux has a usable shell that has GCC, Bash, Awk, dozens of specific commands that can be piped together, Perl, Python, TCL...etc all built-in and easily composable. Windows has well...CMD which is horrible, Batch files, VBScript (deprecated), VBA, and Powershell (a…

I am a developer (Win32; actually started with Win16 and DOS before that) and consider myself a "power user" of Windows, yet never had the feeling you describe. True, the -nix world has a great CLI shell, and some things are much easier there, but on the other hand, the GUI experience is (or at least used to be...) incomparable. AFAIK tiny single-exe-file no-install portable GUI applications just don't exist in the -nix world. I agree that PowersHell is a mess --- I tend to stay away from it and use CMD instead.

In this particular case, it is very strange that they claim something which appears like it shouldn't be OS-dependent at all (Python is supposed to be portable, and there's no GUI stuff) would require a specific OS. A new Microsoft indeed, but unfortunately not one I'm a fan of...

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#29
post #2

> TextWorld requires Python 3 and only supports Linux and macOS systems at the moment. Truly, this is a new Microsoft.

Yes and No. I think they understand the very real limitations of Windows and how developers and power users hate it. Let's compare and contrast the two. Linux has a usable shell that has GCC, Bash, Awk, dozens of specific commands that can be piped together, Perl, Python, TCL...etc all built-in and easily composable. Windows has well...CMD which is horrible, Batch files, VBScript (deprecated), VBA, and Powershell (a…

Or maybe this came out of an MS R&D arm that had free reign on design and it’s not some overall signal that MS has admitted defeat to Linux on the shell.

I have a hard time believing this couldn’t have just as easily been windows based with the exact same amount of effort. Windows has fantastic developer tooling that I think you’re downplaying quite a bit.

> Powershell is a sometimes great (mostly meh)

Powershell has a different philosophy for sure - but I have seen sys admins do some pretty powerful things with it, and quickly. What can a Linux shell do that power shell can’t (that isn’t specific to Linux platform needs)?

Re: MS TextWorld: open-source engine that both generates and simulates text games

#30
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be genuinely surprised if anyone can build an agent that can solve Zelda for the NES without any foreknowledge of the game. So much of that game is bound up in the human cultural tropes associated with the monomyth. To finish the game you need to have at least a basic working knowledge of what it means to be a hero. There is no obvious, short-term indicator of progress the way there is in Mario (increase the…

As I mentioned in the other post, the curiosity bots can help with this. They're rewarded by exploring, not by values in game. Maybe alone they're not enough, but in conjunction with other things, I bet we could beat Zelda. I had the bot exploring enough to find the first dungeon of LoZ.

I just took a look at the curiosity video. It's funny, I think with enough refinement something like this could beat Zelda. Except it wouldn't actually know it beat the game! I feel like that is cheating, somehow.

Like maybe you could get American Fuzzy Lop [1] to beat Zelda. Isn't that the same thing, in principle?

[1] http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/afl/

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