I still have no idea how to use this. The "simple" project is a bunch of files ... with no instructions on how to use it.
Javascript ecosystem as a whole.
Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
51–60 of 85 posts
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#52I get the idea. But the title of this article is "how" not "why" yet the article doesn't ever really get to the how. I'm convinced of the why. I'm still excited to try it.
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we're in a kind of awkward place right now, where browser support for ES6 is inconsistent, and TypeScript has stepped up to fill the "type gap" left by JavaScript in general. Sure, if you only use ES5 then you don't need Babel or Webpack - but devs are tired of this shit and really want to use ES6 or Typescript. So, "nearly impossible" is an exaggeration, but "would rather gouge my own eyes out" is perhaps no…
Tired of what shit exactly, though? typing the word "function"?, hacky workarounds to traditional "classy" style programming? Having to learn what deprecated features to avoid? Is it asynchronous programming? ES6 is nice, but the only real pain point I think it solves is standardising on a module system, which as this article proves, hasn't truly been solved yet, because now we're in the situation where we still have…
If you're actually looking for an answer, then you hit the nail on the head for me personally. For someone who spends 90% of their day working with Firebase/Cloud funcs, I really don't want to go back to promise handling. Call me lazy if it fits your narrative - but you can pry my async ES6 from my cold dead hands.
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tired of what shit exactly, though? typing the word "function"?, hacky workarounds to traditional "classy" style programming? Having to learn what deprecated features to avoid? Is it asynchronous programming? ES6 is nice, but the only real pain point I think it solves is standardising on a module system, which as this article proves, hasn't truly been solved yet, because now we're in the situation where we still have…
If you're actually looking for an answer, then you hit the nail on the head for me personally. For someone who spends 90% of their day working with Firebase/Cloud funcs, I really don't want to go back to promise handling. Call me lazy if it fits your narrative - but you can pry my async ES6 from my cold dead hands.
I've never had an issue working with promises, but perhaps I'll have to give that a try to see if it would make my life better.
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#55This solution pulls in 155 packages from npm, including multiple versions of bullshit packages like "kind-of" that it can't deduplicate. One of the direct dependencies is a library that renders a loading spinner in command line interfaces, which itself pulls in over 20 transitive dependencies. The reason that JavaScript build tooling is so complex and introduces so much overhead is that the ecosystem's culture is fun…
I've said before and I'll say it again, we wouldn't be in this mess if we had a decent standard library and language to begin with.
> if we had a decent standard library and language to begin with.
I use compile to JS languages when I can, but not sure what now you'd want for a frontend JavaScript standard library beyond what's available in ES6.
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#56This solution pulls in 155 packages from npm, including multiple versions of bullshit packages like "kind-of" that it can't deduplicate. One of the direct dependencies is a library that renders a loading spinner in command line interfaces, which itself pulls in over 20 transitive dependencies. The reason that JavaScript build tooling is so complex and introduces so much overhead is that the ecosystem's culture is fun…
I've said before and I'll say it again, we wouldn't be in this mess if we had a decent standard library and language to begin with.
JS standard library is npm, it has weaknesses but it is its biggest strength IMO.
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've said before and I'll say it again, we wouldn't be in this mess if we had a decent standard library and language to begin with.
JS standard library is npm, it has weaknesses but it is its biggest strength IMO.
A standard library should be well-documented, well-maintained, and trusted because it comes from a known source. This is everything npm is not.
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#58This solution pulls in 155 packages from npm, including multiple versions of bullshit packages like "kind-of" that it can't deduplicate. One of the direct dependencies is a library that renders a loading spinner in command line interfaces, which itself pulls in over 20 transitive dependencies. The reason that JavaScript build tooling is so complex and introduces so much overhead is that the ecosystem's culture is fun…
I've said before and I'll say it again, we wouldn't be in this mess if we had a decent standard library and language to begin with.
js should not be used in web "app" to begin with.
Not every god damn webpage has to be as complicated as Gmail.
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
JS standard library is npm, it has weaknesses but it is its biggest strength IMO.
A standard library should be well-documented, well-maintained, and trusted because it comes from a known source. This is everything npm is not.
Library rot is a well known thing in the python/ruby/java/php std libs, although I always hear good things about Go's std lib, they had the advantage of a fresh start and have the resources to keep the std lib well maintained.
Re: Pika/web: Web Apps Without the Bundler
#60I found his opening analogy to be broken. In 1941 there were no clips and other things on the TV news because the tech to record and replay television signals hadn't been created. Until the 60's the only way to record TV was "telecine" which was, as the name implies to record the tv image on film. (The term also implied the reverse process of (re)broadcasting the filmed source material of course.)
It wasn't that no one had thought of showing the dumpster fire (to use a quote from a earlier comment!) but simply that the tech wasn't there. A lot of the problems here are of the same nature. The right level of tech is yet to built and hopefully when it is it may also improve the nature of the media that gets bundled (much as telecine was pretty poor looking when compared to the video tape recording that supplanted it later). So trying new tools is good. But I haven't seen that paradigm altering shift yet.