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Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 on the Day Before Deadly Crash

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Re: Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 on the Day Before Deadly Crash

#21
post #11

...

Do we know if the issue is bad software or bad specs? Even formal methods won't save you from a bad spec.

Yes, and I mentioned this in my second paragraph. And no, we the public know very little about this point about the current alleged MCAS problem, but we know that many problems with safety critical software comes from implementations, not specs.

Re: Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 on the Day Before Deadly Crash

#22
Runaway trim is supposed to be part of the "memory checklist" for pilots. The symptoms of MCAS are the same as runaway trim and the fix is the same (which is why Boeing didn't feel like extra pilot training was needed), so I'm curious to see the most recent investigation and hear the black box voice recorder. Did they not know they were dealing with runaway trim? Did they think it was something else? Did they forget the memory checklist? Was there not enough height to deal with runaway trim regardless? Were the symptoms different than runaway trim, confusing the pilots?

The black boxes will be very illuminating on this respect, especially since we never recovered the Lion Air black box voice recorder.

Re: Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 on the Day Before Deadly Crash

#24

Is it possible for Boeing engineers to lose their professional status as a result of this situation?

Over pilot error and an unmaintained airplane? Doubtful.

You seem very certain of the cause(s) of the crash. Care to share the source of your knowledge?

Re: Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 on the Day Before Deadly Crash

#25

Is it possible for Boeing engineers to lose their professional status as a result of this situation?

Over pilot error and an unmaintained airplane? Doubtful.

I agree that the pilots likely shoulder some of the blame (and in an NTSB-investigated crash, I'd expect their failure to follow the non-normal checklist memory items to be the primary cause), it's not enough to say that this was simple pilot error and poor maintenance.

Boeing's going to wear some of the blame here, as is proper, IMO.

Re: Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 on the Day Before Deadly Crash

#27

The headline is really confusing; I thought I was perhaps reading it wrong, but it's sort of impossible to read correctly until you realize they are talking about a separate incident than the well-known crash. It would have been clearer if they had written something simpler, like "Lion Air 737 Nearly Crashed One Day Before Deadly Accident"

Agreed. I ended up reading a second article on the topic to ensure I was understanding it correctly (the prior day's flight involving the same identical aircraft, not a different one of the same model).

Re: Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 on the Day Before Deadly Crash

#28

Is it possible for Boeing engineers to lose their professional status as a result of this situation?

Over pilot error and an unmaintained airplane? Doubtful.

From the article:

"There have been no reports of maintenance issues with the Ethiopian Airlines plane before its crash."

Re: Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 on the Day Before Deadly Crash

#30

> [T]hey got help from an unexpected source: an off-duty pilot who happened to be riding in the cockpit. That extra pilot, who was seated in the cockpit jumpseat [...] Am I missing something here? Isn't it normal for off-duty pilots to ride in the jump-seat?

If it's a full flight. Otherwise, they'd be given a seat with passengers.
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