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Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

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Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#441

Post by enraged_camel »

joemi wrote: post #387
lordnacho wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit like being forced to buy health insurance and complaining when you don't get ill. I'm not saying the deal was reasonable for your friend, I don't know the details or his life situation. But like security guards or insurers, unions aren't always in "active" mode.

> This is a bit like being forced to buy health insurance and complaining when you don't get ill. You're right, it is a bit like that. And similarly, many people don't want to be forced to buy health insurance. Especially if they don't think they'll get sick.

Do you feel the same way about car insurance? Should people not be required to have active insurance if they don't think they will get into an accident?

What about vaccination?

I'm just curious how far you can take your logic before you realize that it is erroneous.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#442

Post by anth_anm »

adamrezich wrote: post #423
anth_anm wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friend should have been working 80 hours a week for 20 cents an hour instead. Ban unions!

I don't understand this hyperbolic sarcasm. Minimum wage exists, labor laws exist. Not paying mandatory union dues wouldn't result in your wages being reduced that low, or being forced to work that many hours a week. This doesn't make any sense or support the point you're presumably trying to make whatsoever.

> Minimum wage exists, labor laws exist.

Thanks to unions.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#443

Post by Buttons840 »

geofft wrote: post #210
WillPostForFood wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do best when your colleagues do the best, for sure. Do you think the union is going to help or hurt when you have underperforming or disruptive colleagues?

There's a wide spectrum in "a union" just like in "management". I've had good management and bad management. There are good unions and bad unions. So, a priori, I don't have an expectation of whether "the union" - some arbitrarily picked union - will definitely help or hurt, any more than I have an expectation that arbitrary "management" will definitely help or hurt. But there are a few things: - Just like I evaluate…

> I've had good management and bad management. There are good unions and bad unions.

One downside of this is it sounds like we get to roll the "good bureaucracy / bad bureaucracy" dice twice instead of once, if either roll comes up "bad" we're in trouble.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#444

Post by soheil »

Nikkau wrote: post #194
tomohawk wrote: post #169

I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…

> It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" That's the point, "us vs them" is pretty good upgrade from "me vs them"

But that's divide and conquer, it may be a good strategy if you're trying to win a war but if you're trying to form a culture of teamwork and individual responsibility maybe not so much.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#445

Post by dang »

kadendogthing wrote: post #131
msghacq wrote: post #48

"America’s political climate is changing; among other things, the 2016 presidential election brought up the issue of wealth inequality in this country and made people consider more closely the structural forces that define class here." What on earth does the 2016 election have to do with wealth inequality (or unions for that matter)? Inequality has been on the rise for decades and Clinton was also a member of the 1%.…

>What on earth does the 2016 election have to do with wealth inequality A guy who is objectively unqualified for every conceivable post had the opportunity to become elected as president of the U.S. merely because he was born wealthy. You might have heard the following term before: plutocracy

Would you please stop posting political flamebait and/or unsubstantive and/or uncivil comments to HN? You have a track record of these things. We've asked you repeatedly before. We eventually ban accounts that ignore our requests to follow the guidelines. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#446

Post by eigenvalue »

edoo wrote: post #153

I've been in a union before. The work ethic wasn't good. They had seminars on how to work less and push back against complaints. They directed the members to engage in behavior that was best for the union while bad for the workers and the company. The union itself is a big business, what would they think of unionizing the union? Unions allow substandard work for equal pay. That tends to hold back the major opportunit…

Speaking of unionizing the union, see this recent piece in the WSJ about that-- turns out, they don't seem to like their own employees organizing either!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-unions-exploiting-their-emp...

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#448

Post by sgregnt »

root_axis wrote: post #282
scrumbledober wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no reason for any workforces at any of the companies I have worked for as a developer to unionize. In my short career before that, however, I thought it would be very helpful for the valet company I worked at to unionize.

I certainly have. They were mostly the places where if you weren't perceived as the type who is willing to stay till 8PM a few nights a week peppered with the occasional weekend PR, you were relegated to the "poor work ethic" caste. Unions aren't perfect, but they certainly stomp out this type of abuse and force the company to either hire more people or pay fairer wages.

Find a different work place.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#449

Post by Buttons840 »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #164
praptak wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies in general are crappy at recognizing top contributors anyway. Tech companies are no exception.

This is a problem everywhere, but it is worse when you are stuck with unionized employees. Compare public school teachers to private school teachers. Higher pay (thanks to unions) for public schools, and lower quality (thanks to unions).

> Higher pay (thanks to unions) for public schools, and lower quality (thanks to unions).

Mandated by government and paid for with taxes seems to be part of the equation too. I'm not commenting on whether that's a good or bad thing.

However, if a regular business ended up being forced into a situation where they had to overpay underperformers, they'd go out of business, probably for the better(?).

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#450

Post by cc439 »

Retra wrote: post #292
sokoloff wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a clear downgrade from "us and them vs our actual competition"

Whose competition? Other companies are not employee's competition, they are potential places to work. They only compete with the company, not the employees.

How many companies are located within such close geographic proximity to their competitors that employees can choose to work for the competition without moving to a completely separate place? Outside of natural resource extraction, this kind of thinking only applies to nascent eras of new and flourishing industries such as the late 19th century steel industry, early 20th century automobile industry, and current SV-centered tech industry. Eventually those industries will expand away from that overly competitive region in a fragmented manner, divorcing an employees choice in employment from affecting any change in the labor market for a given industry.
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