There are 2 types of unions (in general). There are skilled trade unions (plumbers, electritians, etc) and strictly labor unions (TSA, agriculture laborers, etc). If they are unionizing as a skilled trade union and the union is thus ensuring training and quality of the labor, then i think it is a great idea. If they are unionizing as a strictly labor union, then i see no value to either management or the employees in the long term.
From reading the article, it looks like it is likely the later instead of the former.
Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
431–440 of 724 posts
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Individual workers are powerless, only able to bring their own labor to the negotiation table. What do you mean they are only able to bring their own labor to the table, what else is there that a laborer can bring to the table other than their own labor? If individual workers feel powerless that is probably not because of them possessing something other than their own labor while not being able to negotiate that so…
Many workers putting their labor on the table is a much, much stronger negotiating position than a single worker putting their labor on the table. This is the entire thesis of unions.
I am asking whether it is legitimate or not, I can't help but think how incredibly well it also applies to gangs when I hear that argument.
If more money is paid to individual employees just because they demanded the added cost to the employer makes them inherently less competitive and therefore able to earn less and therefore pay said employees lower wages over time or go out of business.
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you'd rather your friend be worked harder for his minimum wage? You'd rather he be liable for the things people steal from the store? You'd rather him be fired and be without medical insurance if he slips and falls at work? Unions are why your friend isn't worked to death while he waits for his teacher's certification.
Believe it or not, some people actually are willing to work harder for more money
A lot of the people who work hardest, horrible hours out int he cold doing hard labour before you wake up, only make a reasonable living because of unions.
People have literally fought and died for the right to unions, for unions to be taken seriously. A bunch privileged silicon valley tech workers (not me, I'm a privileged seattle based tech worker, totally different ;) ) write off unions as inefficient and useless.
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#434I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…
I think it depends on how heavy handed the union is. I've never not been able to take vacation when I wanted to. Theoretically it could be denied if I didn't give enough advance notice, but that has never happened. It doesn't seem any more or less adversarial than a company where you're entirely at the mercy of your management.
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#435There are 2 types of unions (in general). There are skilled trade unions (plumbers, electritians, etc) and strictly labor unions (TSA, agriculture laborers, etc). If they are unionizing as a skilled trade union and the union is thus ensuring training and quality of the labor, then i think it is a great idea. If they are unionizing as a strictly labor union, then i see no value to either management or the employees in…
> i see no value to either management or the employees in the long term.
The term for this "class consciousness." It's not that the value isn't there, it's that you don't see it.
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#436Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of these things applied to him. He did not get medical or dental benefits because he was employed there for less time than their minimum to begin receiving benefits (or maybe he had just qualified when his teaching license finally got through? I can't remember now). Membership was mandatory for employment, so anyone who works there part-time for less than whatever the minimum amount of time to receive benefits i…
"Membership was mandatory for employment" Union membership is optional for Kroger employees in Mid-South. All employees get the union-negotiated benefits but dues are optional. They won't work hard to defend non-union members, though. What location was this Kroger where union membership was mandatory? I didnt even know that was legal.
Yeah, that legislation is a pretty good way to kill unions.
It's gonna be real interesting when the working class finally has enough of this shit.
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#437I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…
It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial?
Maybe because the employer... made things "adversarial" by creating unhealthy / untenable / inadequately compensated working conditions in the first place?
You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair".
If that's your concern, then the solution -- the only solution -- is to provide attractive (or at least reasonable) enough working conditions so that your employees don't even think of unionizing. As if they're just doing it because they're bored and have some unconscious desire for more complication in their lives or something.
The implicit message behind your critique is that employees who seek to unionize must be basically kind of stupid for not seeing the downsides to going the unionization route. When in reality... it's just a tradeoff. And a tradeoff they see little resource but to take, in view of the unreasonable working conditions (and essentially, if-you-don't-like-it-then-go-fuck-yourselves) negotiating stances taken by their employers.
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#438[deleted]
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does a part-time cheese monger get "worked to death," and what is Kroger's union doing to prevent this from happening? I ask this 100% seriously.
Totally hypothetical but a union may push for safer equipment (cheese slicers/packing machines), thereby avoiding accidental injury.
OSHA exists though, it's not like they were using chainsaws to cut cheese until the union came along to save the day.
Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
You mean the American 5 day work week, brought to us by Henry Ford and not unions?
I assume you got this from an asinine meme designed to deceive people: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep...
> For instance, Ford’s " ‘sociological department’ had to inspect a worker’s home to make sure they ‘deserved’ the $5 first," said Ileen A. DeVault, a professor of labor relations, law and history at Cornell University.
wow.