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Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

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Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#31

Post by perennate »

forkLding wrote: post #13

For those who don't know, Falun Gong is perceived like the Chinese version of Scientology in China, although a lot of injustice was done to Falun Gong followers and most of their assets frozen, there isn't much sympathy for them and they're typically regarded as a bit weird, believing in Qi, faith healing and all that.

> a lot of injustice

"injustice" doesn't even begin to describe the level of persecution that they have endured in China. This is nothing like Scientology in any way, followers of Scientology are not murdered by the U.S. government.

Just take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong#Tort...

"In order to reach transformation targets, the government sanctioned the systematic use of torture and violence against Falun Gong practitioners, including shocks with electric truncheons and beatings."

"Since 2000, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture documented 314 cases of torture in China, representing more than 1,160 individuals. Falun Gong comprised 66% of the reported torture cases."

"The Falun Dafa Information Center reports that over 3,700 named Falun Gong practitioners have died as a result of torture and abuse in custody, typically after they refused to recant their beliefs. ... Government authorities deny that Falun Gong practitioners are killed in custody. They attribute deaths to suicide, illness, or other accidents."

"In 2014, investigative journalist Ethan Gutmann published the results of his own investigation. ... In 2014, investigative journalist Ethan Gutmann published the results of his own investigation. ... In December 2005 and November 2006, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread. However, Chinese officials deny that Falun Gong practitioners' organs are being harvested, and insist that China abides by World Health Organization principles that prohibit the sale of human organs without written consent from donors."

And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong_outside_mainland_Ch...

"In September 2001, five Falun Gong practitioners were assaulted while demonstrating outside the Chinese consulate in Chicago. The assailants, who were later convicted of battery, were members of a Chinese-American association with connections to the Chinese consulate."

"In 2002, 25-year-old Ottawa practitioner Leon Wang reported being kicked, dragged, and beaten inside the Chinese embassy after he was caught taking pictures of an anti-Falun Gong exhibit being held there. The embassy responded that Wang had 'sneaked in ... and disrupted its normal functioning' of the event."

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#32

Post by HillaryBriss »

forkLding wrote: post #13

For those who don't know, Falun Gong is perceived like the Chinese version of Scientology in China, although a lot of injustice was done to Falun Gong followers and most of their assets frozen, there isn't much sympathy for them and they're typically regarded as a bit weird, believing in Qi, faith healing and all that.

is believing in Qi a fringe belief in China nowadays?

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#33

Post by crankylinuxuser »

perennate wrote: post #31
forkLding wrote: post #13

For those who don't know, Falun Gong is perceived like the Chinese version of Scientology in China, although a lot of injustice was done to Falun Gong followers and most of their assets frozen, there isn't much sympathy for them and they're typically regarded as a bit weird, believing in Qi, faith healing and all that.

> a lot of injustice "injustice" doesn't even begin to describe the level of persecution that they have endured in China. This is nothing like Scientology in any way, followers of Scientology are not murdered by the U.S. government. Just take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong#Tort... "In order to reach transformation targets, the government sanctioned the systematic use of torture and…

You know, they can both be bad.

Just because a government does bad things to a group, doesn't mean the group is now good. Doesn't mean they're bad either.

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#34

Post by perennate »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #33
perennate wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of injustice "injustice" doesn't even begin to describe the level of persecution that they have endured in China. This is nothing like Scientology in any way, followers of Scientology are not murdered by the U.S. government. Just take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong#Tort... "In order to reach transformation targets, the government sanctioned the systematic use of torture and…

You know, they can both be bad. Just because a government does bad things to a group, doesn't mean the group is now good. Doesn't mean they're bad either.

I disagree with their beliefs, but to me, committing genocide is a few steps above teaching that homosexuality is immoral. But that could just be because I grew up in a country where freedom of speech is stressed in society, maybe in China murdering thousands of people who follow a "weird" ideology is not considered "bad".

Mostly I was responding to using "injustice" instead of e.g. "violent persecution" and implying that having "their assets frozen" was the worst thing that happened. And implying that a lack of sympathy is somehow relevant in considering the morality of their persecution.

Consider this despicable statement: "Although a lot of injustice was done to followers of Judaism, and most of their assets were frozen, there wasn't much sympathy for the Jewish people in Nazi Germany and they were typically regarded as a bit weird."

These are not at all at the same scale or level of persecution, but nevertheless if you condemn the statement above then logically you ought to condemn the other.

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#35

Post by coupdejarnac »

For those interested in China, serpentza's youtube channel recently did a video about this. The youtube channel China Uncensored is also funded by people associated with Falun Gong. It is ridiculous anti-China propaganda, though some of it is warranted.

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#36

Post by pram »

jscheel wrote: post #4

I often see it advertised at Chinese restaurants around town. Whenever I ask the proprietors if it part of Falun Gong, they all claim not to understand, or they just say no. I can't tell if they actually know what it is and don't want to admit it, or if they legitimately don't know.

There used to be a vegan restaurant in Austin that was overtly Falun Gong. It had religious icons on the wall and the Epoch Times available. Of course it also had the ubiquitous Shen Yun advertisements. Great food!

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#37

Post by [deleted] »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #30
chb wrote: post #17

Embarrassed to say that my wife and I were duped into purchasing tickets to the show. We had thought it would be a highly choreographed, theatrical re-enactment of significant events in pre-Mao China, and had not done any research on it. Instead, it was horribly amateurish propaganda (the entire "set" was a projected CG image). Heavy-handed plays for sympathy and the demonization of the Chinese state culminated in a…

To be fair, Chinese propaganda comes off as heavy-handed to a Western audience, FG is putting on a propaganda show for literal survival, and FG has received the treatment which happens to "bad" groups of people. FG is a nutty cult, but (in my opinion) dont deserve to get organ harvested for belonging to a cult. Other "bad" groups might be Uyghurs now, Hui 5 years in the future, "intellectuals" fifty years ago, and lo…

[deleted]

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#38

Post by [deleted] »

perennate wrote: post #34
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, they can both be bad. Just because a government does bad things to a group, doesn't mean the group is now good. Doesn't mean they're bad either.

I disagree with their beliefs, but to me, committing genocide is a few steps above teaching that homosexuality is immoral. But that could just be because I grew up in a country where freedom of speech is stressed in society, maybe in China murdering thousands of people who follow a "weird" ideology is not considered "bad". Mostly I was responding to using "injustice" instead of e.g. "violent persecution" and implying…

[deleted]

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#39

Post by thewakalix »

stcredzero wrote: post #16
compiler-guy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been once too. The acrobatics and dance and production values are quite professional and nice. But the side-trips into propaganda made me feel like I had been deceived by the advertising, which really turned me off.

I've been once too. The acrobatics and dance and production values are quite professional and nice. But the side-trips into propaganda made me feel like I had been deceived by the advertising, which really turned me off. Propaganda makes for mediocre art. I think one of the seminal essays to that effect was actually written by a prominent propagandist. It's a very important idea for 2019.

Was the essay any good?

Re: Stepping into the Uncanny, Unsettling World of Shen Yun

#40

Post by hurr_durr »

perennate wrote: post #34
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, they can both be bad. Just because a government does bad things to a group, doesn't mean the group is now good. Doesn't mean they're bad either.

I disagree with their beliefs, but to me, committing genocide is a few steps above teaching that homosexuality is immoral. But that could just be because I grew up in a country where freedom of speech is stressed in society, maybe in China murdering thousands of people who follow a "weird" ideology is not considered "bad". Mostly I was responding to using "injustice" instead of e.g. "violent persecution" and implying…

Did you seriously compare Falun Gong practitioners to Jews? ...for Christ's sake...
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