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Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

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Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#261

Post by alasdair_ »

49531 wrote: post #226
joejerryronnie wrote: post #118

Well, there goes the high salaries, flexible working hours, and generous RSU grants for tech employees. Have fun fighting and scraping for 2% raises, paying exorbitant union fees for questionable benefits, and dealing with the nepotism and personal politics of your union leaders. And thanks in advance for adding to the unfunded pension liability crisis.

You know unionizing isn't something people do lightheartedly. A lot of planning and working goes into it, planning and working done by the folks who want to unionize. The idea that you only get benefits if you don't agitate your boss too much sounds pretty sad. People don't join unions if they are going to be worse off materially.

>People don't join unions if they are going to be worse off materially.

Tell that to anyone whose workplace unionizes against their wishes and lives in a "closed shop" state. (Yes, closed shops are illegal, but agency fees lead to essentially the same thing).

Being forced to pay a fee to a union that does not represent you and that you did not vote to join is absolute bullshit.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#262

Post by moate »

ticmasta wrote: post #228
minikites wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? Every workplace is adversarial, it's you versus the C-suite who profit from the surplus value created by your labor. A union just evens out the bargaining power between you and them.

>> A union just evens out the bargaining power between you and them. What if you're better than the majority of "us". I can negotiate a better deal for myself than they can get or justify; now I subsidize the group for "the greater good". This is not why unions where created. They were to address the monopoly of power when all employees could offer was their labour. This is definitely not the case in the western whit…

>>What if you're better than the majority of "us". I can negotiate a better deal for myself than they can get or justify; now I subsidize the group for "the greater good".

Yes. This is also how insurance works. Also, statistically speaking, most people aren't better than the majority. The union then yolks the top half to make things better for the majority. People see this as unfair because they think they somehow got to be better than the majority solely by themselves and with no gains provided by others in their field. This is a way to help your sector directly. Also, a rising tide lifts all ships, so it's also possible that you earn more in the union model than when employees were pitted against each other. Less money goes to share prices, sucks for them.

There is absolutely an imbalance between the rates being paid to western white-collar workers and the value they create for their companies. If there wasn't, we wouldn't continue to see stockholder shares increase and growth in income inequity. I would argue that unions aren't as common in the white collar sector because most office workers don't fully understand the unions because they're 2+ generations removed from someone who may have been involved in one.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#263

Post by gamblor956 »

nichos wrote: post #218
normal_man wrote: post #188

The anti-union rhetoric in America is staggering. You like weekends? Then stop ragging on unions.

You mean the American 5 day work week, brought to us by Henry Ford and not unions?

You mean the 5-day work week, originated by Henry Ford, and spread throughout the world by unions?

More than a decade past before another company adopted the 5-day work week. Unions took Ford's example and made it the standard.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#264

Post by dragonwriter »

SilasX wrote: post #252
marknutter wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...while continuing to collect a salary for effectively doing nothing. Sounds about right.

That's like saying that a guard is doing nothing because no one's trying to break in. No, the guard is a check that deters burglars form taking advantage of you. After a burglary is too late to bring guards on board, and after dramatic unmerited changes in the terms of employment is too late to start a union -- or, at least, later than you'd like. (Not commenting on whether the union will actually work as I've descri…

> after dramatic unmerited changes in the terms of employment is too late to start a union.

It's actually pretty invariably when unions are formed other than at firms in industries that are otherwise pervasively unionized.

Which is actually pretty analogous to physical security: outside of measures taken by everyone in similar circumstances, most heightened measures are taken after a dramatic experience shatters the sense of safety.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#265

Post by enraged_camel »

gamblor956 wrote: post #259
adamrezich wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so how did the Kroger union help my friend at all? Once again, membership was mandatory for employment, and a cut of each of his minimum-wage paychecks went to it, with him seeing zero benefit in exchange. Is there some hidden benefit both he and I (being his roommate at the time) just weren't seeing? (Trust me, we looked.)

Just because your friend didn't see the benefits doesn't mean he didn't have them. Kroger union members have health care benefits, dental and vision benefits, and other benefits that they wouldn't normally get with a minimum wage job. Protections against forced and unpaid overtime (while allowing for voluntary, paid overtime). Hell, the fact he got paid minimum wage in the first place--since unions were, and still ar…

You said it better than I could.

The whole "I cannot immediately see the benefits of paying for something, therefore those benefits probably don't exist!" mentality needs to die.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#267

Post by duado »

crumpets wrote: post #170
duado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not take power that is available to you? Management certainly exercises every bit of power that they are able to. The relationship between a company's stockholders and a company's employees is part competitive and part collaborative. Ignore either at your own peril.

> Why not take power that is available to you? Management certainly exercises every bit of power that they are able to. This isn't true. Management only exercises every bit of power once the relationship becomes hostile. There are tons of things management could do to me to make their jobs easier (e.g. standups twice a day at 8am and 4:45pm with mandatory, in-person attendance) that they don't leverage. Unionizing wh…

Management may feel that they do not have the power to schedule standup at that time, because they would lose key employees.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#268

Post by goldcd »

StevePerkins wrote: post #159
praptak wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies in general are crappy at recognizing top contributors anyway. Tech companies are no exception.

Contributors in general are pretty crappy at recognizing top contributors. How many people in this thread honestly DON'T see themselves as a "top" contributor? Tech is like Lake Woebegone... all the kids are above average.

raises hand I see my job to be a human-shield whose sole purpose is to try to ensure something worthwhile gets done by the collective. No shortage of smart-people. Tricky bit is keeping them pointing vaguely in the right direction and ensuring nobody upsets/interrupts them. I'll fight my/their corner, but accept I may be wrong/out-of-my-depth if you can tell me why. Until then, I just soak up the grief. Biggest turn-off - people who think personal excellence in one area is infinitely transferable.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#269

Post by moduspol »

asark wrote: post #163
moduspol wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems no worse than an employer doing the same, directly or via interest groups. Well, in one scenario it's their money being spent. In the other, it's yours . You don't draw a pretty clear distinction there?

You get upset that tenants are subsidizing a landlord's political spending without a say? Any time you give money to anyone else for any purpose, for that matter? And "their money" comes from your labor (plus their capital, in some share, yes) as surely as "your money" does. This is a way less clear-cut distinction than you're making it out to be, and may not be relevant anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_sh…

> This is a way less clear-cut distinction than you're making it out to be

It really isn't. I think we can all make arguments as to why we're justified in taking from others, but that doesn't change the reality of what is happening.

> may not be relevant anyway:

AFAIK this means only public sector non-union employees cannot be forced to pay for unions' political activities. Private sector employees are still on the hook. Unless there's something else you're trying to draw attention to.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#270

Post by itstriz »

edoo wrote: post #153

I've been in a union before. The work ethic wasn't good. They had seminars on how to work less and push back against complaints. They directed the members to engage in behavior that was best for the union while bad for the workers and the company. The union itself is a big business, what would they think of unionizing the union? Unions allow substandard work for equal pay. That tends to hold back the major opportunit…

> what would they think of unionizing the union?

I've worked for several unions and, at least in my experience, most union staff actually are unionized.

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