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Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

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Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#251

Post by mikewhy »

anth_anm wrote: post #120
bryanlarsen wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the server knows which frame you pressed the 'w' on. So when it gets the 'w', it rewinds it's state machine X frames (hopefully X==1), applies your input, moves the state machine forward X+1 frames and displays that state. So there might be a slight visual glitch but you won't be missing your targets.

That just results in weird laggy gameplay. Actually I don't even think this will work properly at all. You can do some prediction, but latency still kills you.

(I think) RetroArch have already done something similar: https://www.retroarch.com/index.php?page=latency

Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#252

Post by frankchn »

twiceaday wrote: post #186
beenBoutIT wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't answer for OP, but I went with a 2080ti because it's cheaper than purchasing a 2060/2070/2080 now and buying a 2080ti later. If price wasn't an issue I'd have gone with the best possible Titan RTX.

That doesn't make much sense. If you buy a 2070 now in a few years the successor 2170 (or whatever) will be more powerful than the current 2080ti and cheaper. Unless you have unlimited budget I find that buying cheaper cards more often will give you better average performance.

The pace has slowed down somewhat. A 2080 (discounting the DLSS and RTX stuff) is about as fast as a 1080Ti, a 2070 is about as fast as a plain 1080, etc...

Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#253

Post by [deleted] »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #238

Cool. Unfortunately, any and all trust I had in google maintaining its services for more than a few years is long gone. I have games from ~10+ years ago I can still download, update, and play via Steam; What are the chances this lasts more than 3 years? In addition to that obvious concern, I'd also be very hesitant to let Google have any control over my gameplay experience. The downsides of the gaming as a service ju…

[deleted]

Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#254

Post by petra »

stordoff wrote: post #244
petra wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does solve some problems for game developers, like with style transfer. And gamers go where the content is.

Is there any reason that requires infrastructure to _play_ the games (in a consumer sense)? That seemed more like a prototyping tool to me.

No reason. But Google may decide to share it only with cloud partners. Of course it depends on the competition, but the may manage to do so.

Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#255

Post by vvanders »

Scramblejams wrote: post #200
sbov wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The joystick and display device are just the clients now. You have the same problem just moved around a bit. Without the benefit of being able to use techniques to hide latency, such as client side prediction.

No, the client is still the client. It's still a big bunch of stateful code, but now it's running on the LAN with the server and can't have its bits fiddled by the customer. All that code where the server fastidiously checks the client's untrusted state updates goes away, replaced by a much simpler layer that sanity checks the inputs. All that code where the server has to rewind and replay inputs to deal with late-ar…

Sorry but I just don't see it.

I'm used to designing systems and games that work in 100ms+ latent environments since that's what you see in production(or try mobile where it can be 2-5x that).

We were doing 250ms ping times back in '99 with games like SubSpace and the like where you had a predictive game model/design. Yes you lose the overhead of designing for latency because it just won't fundamentally work in those scenarios.

Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#256

Post by stordoff »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #109
gsich wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you compensate for that?

The server will know what frame you were seeing when you pressed your button. So it rewinds it's state machine the appropriate number of frames (hopefully just 1), applies the input, and fast forwards again. This may result in a visual glitch, but you won't have missed your target.

I wonder if you could use something like the RetroArch rollback solution[1] - render multiple versions of the stream, then pick the closest one based on player input. With a fast enough Internet connection, you could let the _client_ pick, then there is no lag.

Of course, the hardware you have to throw at it to do that quickly becomes ridiculous, unless you can come up with a way of efficiently rendering the multiple versions.

[1] https://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-1-7-2%E2%80%8A-...

Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#257

Post by ergo14 »

zarriak wrote: post #229

I really don't understand why people here aren't talking about the real underlying principle of this service. Google has captured the education and cheap laptop space with chromebooks. This is the logical extension of that software. Sure they will eventually combine chromeos and android but this is one more step in the direction of everything happening inside of your web browser. The entire reason this is happening i…

Unless I'm mistaken ChromeOS is only used in US schools on a wide scale.

Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#258

Post by holoduke »

cheeyoonlee wrote: post #232

I also participated in the beta and was quite impressed. In my case, there was no lag and instead, when connection was poorer, the stream quality would get lowered (i.e like Youtube - 1080p to 460p). I think this can be completely resolved with a solid connection. Speaking on Google leveraging Youtube for Strada, I also think this could be an amazing affiliate opportunity for game developers and content creators. Ima…

You mean a great place to loose another 30% of your income. A great place where you are forced to implement Google play related shit. A place where you can be expelled from the service based on wrong bot decisions. A place where there is no human support. A place where only the big publishers are looked after for. A place where indie developers are treated as shit. A place where search algorithms are dubious. Yes that's what you can expect from a Google stream service. Just as the playstore currently is.

Re: Google unveils Stadia cloud gaming service

#260

Post by everdrive »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #39

Rewrote this a few times. Overall I think this would be really bad for the gaming world. Not buying consoles would be nice, but the natural business model will be ads or pay per hour or pay per MB. This is going to further drive the industry to towards mass multiplayer and grindy games I think. More accessible but worse content. Indie shops would probably struggle even more under this model. The cost per user will va…

I think my concern about this wholly depends on if it completely takes over the business model. I really want to own my games. But, I don't mind if alternate streaming models exist, just if they become seriously required.
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