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Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

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Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#81

Post by toomuchtodo »

czbond wrote: post #71
bwestergard wrote: post #9

This is fantastic news. I'm one of the software engineers who was fired for organizing a union at a SF/DC based startup last year. The National Labor Relations Board found in our favor and we won a large cash settlement. But what we wanted was a union. Seeing others pick up the torch is extremely gratifying. Below are some links to news coverage of our case. https://gist.github.com/bwestergard/a77744dc6f3095fd3fb769d…

Two questions: Why are tech company staff wanting to unionize? For the most part, aren't tech staff reasonably to well paid - with good working conditions and moderate hour expectations (say 40-50)? Management has the right at a workplace to make any decisions, whether someone in non-management sees fit. Can't people who are frustrated with the company just go pursue a position elsewhere?

Because work conditions are not as you describe universally, and management’s rights are what we grant them through regulation. Management has excessive power in the US, hence efforts to rein it in.

Historically, management (factory owners) was dragged into the streets and beaten to death (yikes) when excessive inequality was reached. This is an improvement (and hopefully management would see the benefit of treating labor as a partner, not a resource to be consumed).

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#82

Post by Djvacto »

fareesh wrote: post #67

> America’s political climate is changing; among other things, the 2016 presidential election brought up the issue of wealth inequality in this country and made people consider more closely the structural forces that define class here. What is a structural force that defines class in America?

I'm not claiming to be any sort of expert, but I would guess the tax system (not taxing the ultra-wealthy as much as you could/should, and corporations not carrying as much of the tax burden as they used to, once again arguably not as much as they should).

There is also a lot of structure around consumerism, debt, and the like, though this is split between societal/cultural structures and government/business structures.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#84

Post by rb808 »

msghacq wrote: post #45

It will be interesting to see what this does for developer salaries at Kickstarter. If, as a top performer, I get penalized by joining the union then obviously Kickstarter looks less attractive to me. For unions in our industry to work they are going to have to be very explicit about how they are going to raise developer salaries.

Yeah but presumably with a union you can also take it easy, not worry about getting laid off and spend time on personal projects.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#85

Post by droobles »

czbond wrote: post #47

Why are tech company staff wanting to unionize? For the most part, aren't tech staff reasonably to well paid - with good working conditions and moderate hour expectations (say 40-50)?

Depends on where you're at, I've heard at some big companies you're going to work 70 - 80 hours and be on call.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#86

Post by ashelmire »

czbond wrote: post #47

Why are tech company staff wanting to unionize? For the most part, aren't tech staff reasonably to well paid - with good working conditions and moderate hour expectations (say 40-50)?

> For the most part, aren't tech staff reasonably to well paid - with good working conditions and moderate hour expectations (say 40-50)?

That can vary wildly. And just like other industries, there can be management abuses - like demanding regular, unpaid overtime, substandard wages, sexism, unreasonable behavior, etc. Think about all the basically permanent contractors working for tech companies that might not have healthcare or other benefits, etc.

Allowing company management to organize and act as a collective while not doing so as an employee puts you at a disadvantage in every negotiation and conflict.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#87

Post by magissima »

fareesh wrote: post #67

> America’s political climate is changing; among other things, the 2016 presidential election brought up the issue of wealth inequality in this country and made people consider more closely the structural forces that define class here. What is a structural force that defines class in America?

Inherited wealth, disparities in access to education, racism, and a weak labor movement are a few of the many forces that impede upward social mobility.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#88

Post by calcifer »

mises wrote: post #64
chrisseaton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how unions work in the US, but most unions in the UK fund a single political party, which means you could be forced to pay to support a party with views you find abhorrent in order to work, so I hope not.

Completely correct. Three of the top 10 election cycle 2018 contributors were unions. * Carpenters & Joiners Union gave $38,366,262 with $37,822,215 to democrats and $529,000 to republicans. * Service Employees International Union gave $28,224,658 with $28,219,509 to democrats and $132 to republicans. * Laborers Union gave $27,538,080 with $26,810,870 to democrats and $708,100 to republicans. Source: https://www.open…

You mean the unions are not supporting the anti-union party? Colour me surprised...

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#89

Post by bwestergard »

matthewowen wrote: post #36
baby_wipe wrote: post #14

So if they succeed, does that mean nobody can work for Kickstarter unless they are part of the union?

No. You're describing a closed shop, and closed shops are illegal in the USA. They _could_ require that _after_ joining Kickstarter either join the union or pay equivalent dues.

Additionally, you can be a "Beck objector". The wikipedia article on this includes a good breakdown of the closed/union/agency shop distinctions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Workers_of_Amer...

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#90

Post by chrisseaton »

freshcatch_ wrote: post #40
apl002 wrote: post #19

what are the pros/cons of unionizing? I dont know jack about this

The way I heard it best explained is no one would try to start a union if it made them less money. Better pay and benefits - my maximum out of pocket was lower than most deductibles. Democratizes the workplace - really helps keep management in check. You get real job security - firing is much less arbitrary with a steward fighting for you. However, if people aren't active in union elections, bargaining etc. it can ge…

> The way I heard it best explained is no one would try to start a union if it made them less money.

People could start a union so _they_ make more money, but _you_ could make less money.

For example pay by seniority. Great for the senior people in the union, not so great for you.

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