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Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

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Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#151
What if the problem with open-source not making money isn't the open-source part, but the money part?

Our current economic system focuses on money as a medium of "equivalent exchange", as in there's no free lunch and a dollar you spend on buying a piece of butter necessarily means you can't spend that same dollar on a gun (same thing for the butter merchant). This exchange is based on a contractual agreement that binds for a finite time, and stuff that happens outside that window is necessarily considered an "externality". In other words, money facilitates a social interaction that prioritizes focus on the costs/benefits of individual(s) involved while de-prioritizing the costs/benefits of the collective at large.

But contributing to open-source is not that sort of social interaction, instead, it's one that prioritizes contributing to the collective over individual gain - i.e. a social interaction that focuses on externalities instead of on contractual time-based exchange. Money, with its focus on being loosely "conserved" (e.g. you can't double-spend the same dollar), is simply not a good medium for encouraging cooperation and discouraging free-riding to open-source (and other public-goods)

In traditional villages, public-goods contributions were facilitated with some combination of reputation and gossip. Later, cities and states managed to come up with taxation, courts, and prison when reputation and gossip failed to scale. But the super-connected capitalist "globopolis" of today demands a new form of organizing cooperation and eliminating free-riding when it comes to public goods.

To properly solve the problem of the economics of open-source, we need to solve this more general organization problem.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#152
post #86

Its commoditized the cost to use software to near zero which has created a lot of unprecedented value and products that wouldn't be possible before OSS. Unfortunately most of the wealth created by OSS is being reaped by the large cloud vendors because relatively no-one pays for OSS but they do to host their production systems on it, atm this revenue goes directly to the major tech cloud companies which are using it t…

I'm starting to suspect that the major cloud vendors are well along on pulling a classic "embrace, extend, extinguish" gambit on that front. I'm sure there are a percentage of people operating in the cloud who stick judiciously to an open-source stack, and remain masters of their own future as a result. But it seems more common to spread some open source icing on top of a cake made out of ingredients like Beanstalk,…

Embrace, Extend, Engulf?

I'm not sure what you call it when Amazon can pretty much just take your project over when you piss them off.

Mongo is getting EEE'ed.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#153
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a tragedy of the commons situation, which we have been able to fix in other instances with organized funding. We've seen some organizations spring up around funding open source projects, but if e.g. the US government authorized federal grant funding for open source projects, I think it would set an example for industry (and other governments) across the world. The challenge is getting historically scarc…

I think tragedy of the commons isn’t really a problem for the development side, though I think I get what you mean, but it comes in the form of excessive fragmentation of the ecosystem. Do we really need dozens of Linux distros when most of them are really just tweaks and could easily be packages on other distros? Do we really need all the little incompatible changes, new UI shells, multiple marketplace stores and mu…

"Do we really need all the little incompatible changes, new UI shells, multiple marketplace stores and multiple messaging clients and crapware on Android OEM phones?"

Yes, we do. If different people did not try doing new things (or just old things done differently), there wouldn't be as much progress, and we would all be poorer for it. Sure, some things stick, some don't, but that's how it's supposed to be.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#155
post #86

Its commoditized the cost to use software to near zero which has created a lot of unprecedented value and products that wouldn't be possible before OSS. Unfortunately most of the wealth created by OSS is being reaped by the large cloud vendors because relatively no-one pays for OSS but they do to host their production systems on it, atm this revenue goes directly to the major tech cloud companies which are using it t…

> Unfortunately most of the wealth created by OSS is being reaped by the large cloud vendors Why is that unfortunate? It has enabled a cycle of OSS to user AND OSS to vendor to vendor enrichment to user...since you can always modify the code at will. The best of both worlds, until you get into that special "extension" problem that GPL3 tried to lock down.

Because they get to use their money and power and seep wealth out of things they had no part in creating.

It's disgusting.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#156
post #86

Its commoditized the cost to use software to near zero which has created a lot of unprecedented value and products that wouldn't be possible before OSS. Unfortunately most of the wealth created by OSS is being reaped by the large cloud vendors because relatively no-one pays for OSS but they do to host their production systems on it, atm this revenue goes directly to the major tech cloud companies which are using it t…

This just made me wonder: what if all of the major OSS companies joined forces, started a new cloud company whose purpose was to send revenue back to all of its underlying OSS projects. Each then promotes that cloud as its #1 recommended cloud, and use their collective visibility to grow that into a contender? One can dream...

Fair and equatable distribution wouldn't factor into any consideration for Companies paying developers and cloud hosting companies to run their businesses.

IMO the best way would be for all OSS developers to come together and agree on a standard "OSS-like" license which is basically "OSS and free for everyone else except cloud hosters", if enough OSS developers do this it will force the major cloud vendors to implement a system to revenue share back to the creators of OSS their hosting.

I'm puzzled why Redis Labs, Elastic, Confluent and Mongo DB aren't already coming together to use the same standardized license as there's strength in numbers - instead they're each individually releasing their commercial efforts under their own individually branded license.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#157
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you have your production systems running on a cloud vendor it becomes increasingly difficult to move off it regardless if you're only using OSS components, there's an inherent risk with every migration that grows the more services you use and years you host on it that needs to be offset with any migration and given the major cloud vendors are comparatively priced, there's little incentive to invest their time an…

...but that is generally regarded to be economically irresponsible in itself preventing you from leveraging the best features available in each cloud. This is only true as long as the costs of maintaining a cloud provider abstraction layer are greater than the costs of being locked in to a single vendor. I believe that some businesses, once they are armed with an abstraction toolkit like this, will be able to employ…

Speed to product, risk, and access to talent(via other people's code) matters much more than cost, for most software business.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#158
post #97
post #86

Its commoditized the cost to use software to near zero which has created a lot of unprecedented value and products that wouldn't be possible before OSS. Unfortunately most of the wealth created by OSS is being reaped by the large cloud vendors because relatively no-one pays for OSS but they do to host their production systems on it, atm this revenue goes directly to the major tech cloud companies which are using it t…

I think you are mostly right, but I don't think the major cloud providers have much of an uncrossable moat. Cloud services are and will continue to become more and more commoditized. Sure, there is proprietary lock-in. But because of OSS, it is also becoming easy to avoid the lock-in. For example, rather than use a hosted elastic service, I was able to launch an elastic stack on k8s in less than an hour of configurat…

> but I don't think the major cloud providers have much of an uncrossable moat

Billions of dollars and years of constructions to just start trying to enter the market, where you will fail because your offerings are relatively pathetic on multiple fronts.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#159
The answer is more aggressively copyleft licensing (AGPL, and others).

If APIs are copyrightable that's a very unfortunate thing, but it would also make it possible to protect FOSS IP much more aggressively. Mongo wouldn't be getting destroyed by Amazon, for example.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#160

> Open Source Doesn't Make Money Because It Isn't Designed to Make Money What? RedHat - $34B MuleSoft - $6.5B Elastic - $5B Cloudera + Hortonworks - $5B Pivotal Software - $4.7B MongoDB - $3.5B

Those are businesses. Businesses are designed to make money. Open Source is a category of licenses designed to facilitate distribution of software.

I feel like much of the problems mentioned in this thread come down to people wanting to be paid to write software but not building a business that lets them do that. They spent all their time working on the software and not the business.

The book "The E Myth" about entrepreneurship tackles this. "You're a baker who loves to bake. You start a bakery. Now you're a business person first, not a baker." They say "you work ON the business, not IN the business."

In business, you trade money for value. If it's high value they can't get elsewhere, you might get a lot of money in the trade. You work on your business by figuring out what value you'll sell, and to whom ... and design your business by choosing those parameters so you make a living.

It's no different with musicians and photographers. You can love their craft, and be good at it, but not find something to sell that makes you a living. Wedding photographers generally don't like their job, but it pays great. It's generally not the art form they prefer, but it's the one that's easiest to make a living at.

Business is this constant negotiation between supply (you, the programmer) and demand (the people you're hoping will give you money). Not every product sits at a profitable place on this curve.

Open Source privileges the Creator, not the Buyer. I can make whatever I like and give it away for free. I might have one user or a hundred million. Because it's not a business model (an exchange of value for money), it isn't at all concerned with the financial viability of the programmer's lifestyle. That's why surveys repeatedly find that "most" "programmers" work for a company and are paid to produce open source (for some values of "most" and "programmers"). The companies handle the messy business stuff that isn't as much fun as coding, and programmers just get on with coding.

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