Devops needs to be a two way street devs and ops • Hacker News Board

Re: Devops needs to be a two way street devs and ops

#11

Post by gfodor » Fri, Nov 26, 2010, 8:32 PM UTC

thwarted wrote: post #10

gfodor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling the reason we think racking servers and configuring Apache are fundamental elements for software companies has less to do with reality and more to do with the status quo. The world is going through a phase shift, and each day that goes by trends away from the current model of in-house operations. It's just a matter of how much farther things are going to get before it slows down and stops.

It definitely trends away from in-house operations for companies who view their systems and operations to be cost centers that are not intimately involved with the product/service. And companies that do keep in-house operations will have the same kind of competitive advantage that companies that don't outsource their developers have (whatever that may or may not be).

Honestly, how many companies fall into the category of having their data centers be intimately involved with their product/service? Not very many, to me.

Re: Devops needs to be a two way street devs and ops

#12

Post by nicferrier » Fri, Nov 26, 2010, 9:28 PM UTC

mmt wrote: post #6

chuhnk wrote: post #3

I have to completely agree with this blog post. I'm a sysadmin living in a world of developers and what I'm being shown is nothing new. I think there are a lot of companies in which dev and ops is split to such a degree that the devops movement becomes relevant in aiding them to bring together both sides, but for the rest of us we've seen it and done it. I agree with the author, there's a lot of condescension coming…

Hear hear. Personally, I find the whole devops notion a bit bizarre, since, from what I can tell, the theme is one of two. One is trying to make sysadmins into programmers (or hybrid programmers/sysadmins). This may be the one-way street the blogger is referring to. I could be a programmer if I wanted to, but that's not what brings me joy. There's a reason I've been a sysadmin for my entire career, and it's not some…

devops makes so much sense to me because it's what I've been doing my whole career. The trouble is with the devops movement, as the blog says, the old tools and processes are sometimes still relevant. Sysadmins in that category 2 from the first comment need to be persuaded that a lot of their old skills are absolutely still usable. The example from the article, of bash scripts getting version controlled is a really good one I think.

And of course, sysadmins have a wealth of experience to bring to the way development is done. It wouldn't hurt if a few more developers learned bash and the different levels of RAID.

Re: Devops needs to be a two way street devs and ops

#13

Post by thwarted » Fri, Nov 26, 2010, 11:22 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #11

thwarted wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely trends away from in-house operations for companies who view their systems and operations to be cost centers that are not intimately involved with the product/service. And companies that do keep in-house operations will have the same kind of competitive advantage that companies that don't outsource their developers have (whatever that may or may not be).

Honestly, how many companies fall into the category of having their data centers be intimately involved with their product/service? Not very many, to me.

None, but the point of the OP is that operations is a lot more involved than racking servers and hitting power switches. There's a wide range of stuff that between "developer" and "server racking". The things on this spectrum that are closer to developer are the things that I'm saying are not worth outsourcing, my previous comments in this thread touch on that.