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Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

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Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#81
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Godot engine has this model. They are getting donations from patreon [1], enough to pay 2 people full time at the center of the project. Wikipedia is another project which is doing this very successfully. But in general, those methods bring you much less money than if you were proprietary, because as you rightfully point out, most people are "freeloaders". [1]: https://www.patreon.com/godotengine

to nitpick, but to me the term 'freeloaders' has a negative connotation and I don't think it should in the case of FOSS. Being able to use it for free is quite literally the point of FOSS. Apart from that, you make good points :)

Do you mean free as in beer, or free as in speech here? I'm still honing my understanding of FOSS, and I'm not 100% sure that FOSS means free as in beer.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#82
post #67
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean games like Diablo weren't very successful?

Freemium model is vastly more profitable. There is a reason every game company is switching to it.

For some numbers - Diablo 3 was one of the best-selling AAA titles with 12 million copies sold in its first year, about 30 million within the first 3 years. The entire Civilization franchise has sold about 40 million copies - Civ 5 & 6 each sold about 8 million copies. At $50/copy, that's about $200M per game, ranging up to about $1.5B for a bestseller over multiple years.

By comparison, Wargaming (a mid-level F2P publisher of World of Tanks, World of Warships, and World of Warplanes) made about $600M in 2015. Fortnite (a bestselling F2P phenomena) made $2.4B in 2018. Pokemon Go (also a huge fad, but one now passe) made about $795M in 2018, and roughly $2B since launch.

The playerbase for these F2P games is more than an order of magnitude bigger than traditional AAA titles, so even though a large percentage players never pay, they still pull in roughly 2-4x what the traditional business model does.

(This is also what's driving the sky-high valuations of Twitch and Discord - all these players use related services even if they don't pay for the game itself. It's also interesting to compare this to movies - games are now comparable to or even exceeding blockbuster movies in revenue potential.)

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#84
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RedHat's business is not selling GPL software. They probably sell more BSD/MIT/Apache software than GPL software, but they're not in the business of selling software at all. They're in the business of selling support .

Those are good points. As I think about it some more, it's not even just support that they sell (as in, you can call them up when there's a bug). The large enterprises they sell to value: - support - training - ease of install - ease of upgrade - indemnity (e.g., Red Hat promises to pay your court costs if someone sues for patent infringement) - stability (long term support releases) Those are all things that plain o…

business in the US has stopped paying for training, generally..

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#86
Its commoditized the cost to use software to near zero which has created a lot of unprecedented value and products that wouldn't be possible before OSS.

Unfortunately most of the wealth created by OSS is being reaped by the large cloud vendors because relatively no-one pays for OSS but they do to host their production systems on it, atm this revenue goes directly to the major tech cloud companies which are using it to build out their multi-billion dollar infrastructure moats, ensuring a barrier to entry no other will be able to partake in.

This is why cloud vendors have become so "OSS friendly" - they love the status quo as they've become the primary beneficiaries from everyone developing and distributing OSS for free as long as they're able to collect the rent when it gets hosted in the end.

You're starting to see the conflicts as more companies like Redis Labs, Elastic, Confluent and MongoDB who realize this and start distributing their future investments under "OSS free that's free for everyone else but can't be used commercially by cloud vendors" as a way to force licensing so Cloud vendors are unable to use their own investments to compete against them - and force some revenue share back from when Customers pay for OSS, when they host it.

So when you hear how much cloud companies "love OSS" and how their initiatives like "Open Distro for Elasticsearch" is to ensure it stays open, know that they're not doing it out of altruism, it's to repackage Elastic's OSS investments and make it available for free so they can be hosted on AWS without having to host with Elastic, it effectively lets them avoid licensing and revenue sharing back to the companies who've invested their time and resources into developing it.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#87
I think it was designed to make money: sell the actual software. RMS used to sell free copies of Emacs: for 100 bucks, you'd get Emacs, the source code, the documentation, and the necessary scripts to compile it. This was always part of the definition of free software, which open source inherited.

It's just that selling like this is more difficult now that there's a high-speed internet for everyone, but I think more people should be trying to sell this way. App stores are one example, if they didn't have those ridiculous GPL-incompatible restrictions, but Red Hat does outright just sell the software in a GPL-compatible way: you want access to their repos and nothing else, no support (I believe they call this self-service), they sell that too.

It might not make you rich, it might not hockey stick, but I think if more people just tried to sell free software, we'd see more people being able to comfortably make a living.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#88
One thing I'm not seeing here is people giving freely simply because you created something they value. You will never become a billionaire through this mechanism but I suspect you can probably earn a decent living.

The problem with this mechanism is that now each project is out on their own to advertise their needs and get donations. I'm actually experimenting in this space with SeedAndDew (https://www.seedanddew.com). My hypothesis is that if you can give people the ability to set a specific amount to open source that automatically goes to the right places, more people will contribute. Just went full-time to see this through so early days but I'm optimistic.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#89

Maybe Mozilla could do with a bit less money. They've been playing serious business for some time now, but it's pretty much been borrowed feathers. Firefox got big because of early enthusiasts who believed in a better web. That got them enough clout to get google interested, and google basically gave them large piles of money. Somehow that gave them the idea they were a "real business" now, and they started spending…

From what I understand, a bunch of the long lived charities put their donations in the bank and live off of the interest. You get more donations by pretending like the money is for your new program, but it's only indirectly so (more assets equals more operating capital).

If Mozilla didn't do that, their biggest opportunities for setting up and endowment are in the past and it won't go well for them in the future.

Re: Open Source Doesn’t Make Money Because It Isn’t Designed to Make Money

#90
post #78

I'm currently experimenting with this directly. Specifically trying to make Open Source sustainable but for a consumer project. I think Open Source really works for infrastructure projects and it's possible to do really well either working on a system like Kubernetes or Elasticsearch. Not so well for projects that are more focused on consumers. My app, Polar, is focused more on consumers and is an app for people to m…

It looks like it works as a service. Aren’t you concerned someone could fork you, spin it up on AWS and compete you into the dust? What benefits do you think the project and users will gain from it being open source?

Possibly ... not right now though. First I need it to be successful before I start worrying about those issues.

If someone were to do that now I would be amazed... honestly and would just want to work with them :)

The license is GPL and the backend infra might not be open. Trying to still figure that part out.

It depends on whether the community steps up and wants to keep it open.

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