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Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#161
post #28

> Scroll anchoring keeps content from jumping as images and ads load at the top of the page That's a nice little quality-of-life improvement. It's a little annoyance that you don't really consciously notice because you're so used to it, but I recall reading about Chrome adding a similar feature and suddenly realising how annoying it is when you're reading something, and then suddenly it jumps out of your view due to…

Oh wow, new Twitter is actually usable now.

Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#162

At the end unless Firefox doesn't block JavaScript, it won't have much effect. Actually it's also time to ban JavaScript after horrendous front end frameworks made simple page loads slow, energy and time consuming.

If we just ban cars no one will get in any more wrecks.

Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#163
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree re: "JS does more harm than good". I have at least 5 progressive webapps open right now, none of which could work without javascript. Of the other 20 websites I have open in other tabs, none are being annoying or aggressive, and I'm not even using an adblocker.

They could be proper applications instead.

Having them be proper applications would be a huge problem for the security and therefore the computing autonomy of the average person. The fact that you don't generally download unsandboxed, unsigned apps from the internets any more (and don't run shrink-wrapped apps from the local CompUSA that are full of C string parsing vulnerabilities, either) is one of the most meaningful accomplishments in computer security in the last decade. If you want to throw it out, you personally can clean up the Bonzi Buddies on every Windows user's computer. The most malicious JavaScript web page still can't install Bonzi Buddy. We've even gotten to an era where most people don't need to install anti-virus, because moving everything to the web has fixed the fundamental problems with desktop OS design that required a quasi-snake-oil, theoretically-untenable approach to maintain a semblance of integrity.

There's another alternative, which is curated and audited app stores à la iOS, but the fact that you can't use applications unless they're approved by a megacorporation would also be bad for people's computing autonomy.

(Also, what makes you think that the developers of bloated JS apps won't make bloated desktop apps?)

Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#165
post #42

Whenever Firefox is automatically updated through my package manager, any open instances refuse to load any new pages or tabs until I restart Firefox . Needless to say, this is absolutely infuriating when I'm in the middle of something important. Does anyone know how to disable this feature?

Uninstall the distro provided Firefox and use the binary produced by Mozilla. It downloads its own updates in the background and applies the next time you quit and relaunch.

Snap and Flatpak apps I think can do this as well, because they aren't stepping on the running binaries during the update. And you get the updated version when you relaunch.

Firefox isn't special in this regard. 100% of my applications on Windows and macOS expect to be quit before they can be updated, and is enforced either by the application, the OS, or the updater. I suspect that distro package managers don't really have a way to do an out of band update, all they can do is step all over in-use libraries and that inevitably causes the application to go a little crazy.

Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could be proper applications instead.

They are applications. They run in a safe sandbox in the browser, rather than being all-powerful programs running directly on the system. They allow nuances of trust ("I trust this application with the data I'm giving it") rather than absolute trust ("I trust this application with access to my entire system and all my data").

Proper applications follow OS UI conventions, they appear in the task bar, are launched from the application launcher etc. Proper applications can also be sandboxed, though Spectre makes it a bad idea to run untrusted code anyway.

Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#167

Why not just block the audio by default? I don't care about the video, because any hostile website could still generate video by using gifs, or by playing a sequence of image frames using JavaScript.

Video tends to eat deeply into the metered data plans of many Internet users.

Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#168
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. It's way harder (and therefore the barrier is higher, they'd be less likely to exist, etc) to develop cross platform native applications than it is to just implement them as webapps. If it was just as easy to write and distribute native applications, we'd be doing that, instead of bolting it onto the web. But it's pretty clearly not.

Its the other way round. If web apps didnt exist, there would be more pressure to develop tools that make it easy to write and distribute proper applications.

Under what circumstances would webapps not exist in some form or another? It's a system for deploying applications via the web, and JavaScript is primarily the language that they're implemented in.

I will bet you that in 99% of alternative timelines, we'd end up with something incredibly similar to what we've got today, and you'd still be complaining that applications aren't "native" enough, because practically nobody cares that a taskbar or button isn't a native OS component. They care that their application works, and can be quickly deployed and updated.

Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Email clients, word processors and video chat would be very much possible without Javascript.

Email clients, sure. Word processors? Only if you're requiring something like Markdown. Video chat seems right out, unless you're permitting a Flash solution, which would be severely cheating.

He's not talking about cancerous in-browser webapps. He's talking about actual clients.

Re: Firefox 66.0 Aims to Reduce Online Annoyances

#170

Why not just block the audio by default? I don't care about the video, because any hostile website could still generate video by using gifs, or by playing a sequence of image frames using JavaScript.

Because breaking sites like Soundcloud and Youtube by default seems like an overreaction to the abuse of auto-playing sound
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