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Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

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Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#71

Post by black-tea »

jschwartzi wrote: post #65
ndnxhs wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed bitbucket still exists considering both gitlab and github are so far ahead of it. I have to use it at work and its missing half the features I need.

I'm only a Bitbucket user because it's the only way I can get hosted Mercurial repositories. The Mercurial workflow is a lot simpler than Git and was much easier to learn. Git expects you to want to mess with history and accumulate changes into a special "staging" changeset before committing which just felt odd compared to Mercurial where I can commit and then keep amending the same commit.

You can amend commits in git. But it sounds like you're doing it wrong anyway. If anything you want to make more numerous, smaller commits, and that's what staging is good for.

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#72

Post by smartstakestime »

Benjammer wrote: post #10

All this advanced tracking/planning stuff from companies like Atlassian seem to me like some kind of weird, dystopian "C-Suite-Porn." The going narrative seems to be this idea that companies have, throughout the history of business, been guided completely by the whims and emotional fancies of the leadership team and/or CEO. And now we're adding tools to surface more and more status tracking information up to the C Su…

>All this advanced tracking/planning stuff from companies like Atlassian seem to me like some kind of weird, dystopian "C-Suite-Porn."

no matter how good the software is , the people using it can make it suck , especially something like communication software

Ive said that things like jira are all about clarity , organization and making process strict. If you dont have that then the tickets become a bunch of unproductive threads.

Also with enough determination you can turn an excel/google spreadsheet into a good bug tracker

I think their software is pretty good , but bad PMs bad process and it doesnt matter. If you managers cant decide a consistent way to run a sprint youll never be able to efficiently record and track it.

Its like we are putting the cart before the horse. Before we can create a good organization tool we need people that want to be organized.

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#73

Post by hvidgaard »

black-tea wrote: post #71
jschwartzi wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm only a Bitbucket user because it's the only way I can get hosted Mercurial repositories. The Mercurial workflow is a lot simpler than Git and was much easier to learn. Git expects you to want to mess with history and accumulate changes into a special "staging" changeset before committing which just felt odd compared to Mercurial where I can commit and then keep amending the same commit.

You can amend commits in git. But it sounds like you're doing it wrong anyway. If anything you want to make more numerous, smaller commits, and that's what staging is good for.

I've had far better success introducing Mercurial to developers new to DVCS - anecdotal only.

Mercurials phase system is really nice, but with git you can selectively push branches. However simple this might seem, it's the cause of quite a bit of friction.

TortoiseHg makes visualizing the tool and repository quite simple, and it covers most of the day-to-day work.

I now have multiple developers able to manage advanced workflows, and unfuck a repository if someone did something braindead. After 1 year with git I was still the only person able to unfuck repositories, and it happend a lot more frequently than with hg.

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#74

Post by GordonS »

pcurve wrote: post #56
GordonS wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seem to me like some kind of weird, dystopian "C-Suite-Porn." I hate Confluence and am absolutely stealing that phrase!

I think he/she was commenting more about JIRA. Confluence is actually pretty useful.

I do (obviously!) hate JIRA, but I just don't like Confluence. It feels like where documentation goes to die, the search function is useless, and I find myself constantly hunting for tiny little buttons and links to attachments.

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#75

Post by black-tea »

hvidgaard wrote: post #73
black-tea wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can amend commits in git. But it sounds like you're doing it wrong anyway. If anything you want to make more numerous, smaller commits, and that's what staging is good for.

I've had far better success introducing Mercurial to developers new to DVCS - anecdotal only. Mercurials phase system is really nice, but with git you can selectively push branches. However simple this might seem, it's the cause of quite a bit of friction. TortoiseHg makes visualizing the tool and repository quite simple, and it covers most of the day-to-day work. I now have multiple developers able to manage advance…

True. I've never tried hg or tried teaching it to developers but I am still the only one able to unfuck a repository after trying to teach people git (the DAG) many times. I think it's probably because of my background in C programming and having the idea of pointers/references so deeply embedded. Programmers who don't know this already can't seem to get it.

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#76

Post by hvidgaard »

black-tea wrote: post #75
hvidgaard wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had far better success introducing Mercurial to developers new to DVCS - anecdotal only. Mercurials phase system is really nice, but with git you can selectively push branches. However simple this might seem, it's the cause of quite a bit of friction. TortoiseHg makes visualizing the tool and repository quite simple, and it covers most of the day-to-day work. I now have multiple developers able to manage advance…

True. I've never tried hg or tried teaching it to developers but I am still the only one able to unfuck a repository after trying to teach people git (the DAG) many times. I think it's probably because of my background in C programming and having the idea of pointers/references so deeply embedded. Programmers who don't know this already can't seem to get it.

To be fair, hg and git are so similar that you can convert between them almost 1:1. But something about hg just makes it work better for devs new to version control in my experience

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#77

Post by applecrazy »

mansilladev wrote: post #61
applecrazy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The service desk feature is nice, but maybe having a form for people to fill out to file a support request would be even better. That way, people can file requests without directly opening their email client. Just a small thought :)

Jira Service Desk does come with a portal and forms to create requests (in addition to supporting email).

I was talking about Gitlab Service Desk.

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#78

Post by smcg-gitlab »

nisa wrote: post #41
sytse wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean we're not going after Confluence or JIRA? Wikis are certainly not a priority for us. I think if you don't separate the proposer from the person who accepts the proposal the wiki tends to grow stale. So we're betting on static websites with GitLab Pages. There is a large market for wikis but you would have to use something easier than markdown, which is hard for us to get away from. We're going after JIRA. In…

Ohh, I really have to stop making snarky comments here :) So I actually looked at migrating to Gitlab due our JIRA pains but it's not really possible if you have some already grown setup (it's not exactly easy to solve so no blame to Gitlab here) - no JIRA import (it's possible with some REST-API fighting), but something easy would be nice: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/2780 - The work-log issue is n…

Hello! I'm an engineering manager working on the Plan stage at GitLab, which covers all the areas you're mentioning here.

> if you have some already grown setup (it's not exactly easy to solve so no blame to Gitlab here)

Thanks :-) We do intend to offer a good solution here, so these are valuable points.

> - no JIRA import (it's possible with some REST-API fighting), but something easy would be nice: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/2780

We added a very basic issues import from a CSV file recently (https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/issues/csv_import.ht...), as a sort of basic MVC of this.

I've asked the product manager in the issue you linked if we're considering this in the medium term.

> - The work-log issue is not solved as far as I understood the documentation, it's possible to have external users to hide internal projects but once you are on a project time-tracking information is visible.

That's correct. We have https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/27204 open for this if you'd like to contribute there, or even just add a thumbs-up emoji.

> - From a quick glance over the docs it looks like reporting on tracked time is also not possible out of the box - and probably not across projects - we use Tempo Timesheets on JIRA for that, the slash commands /spend /estimate are probably okay for devs but we also have other users that can deal with the fields in JIRA.

Also correct! We have https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/54118 and https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/3803 open for this, but I'm not sure if either exactly meets your needs. Feel free to open a new issue and ping me (@smcgivern on GitLab) if they don't.

> - It looks like the whole custom fields on issues is still in the works (we use that quite heavily) and there is no concept of workflows (we also have some custom setup there)

For workflows you can see https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/2059 and specifically https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/2059#note_148.... We do intend to cover this area, we're just quite there yet.

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#79

Post by victorwu »

nisa wrote: post #41
sytse wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean we're not going after Confluence or JIRA? Wikis are certainly not a priority for us. I think if you don't separate the proposer from the person who accepts the proposal the wiki tends to grow stale. So we're betting on static websites with GitLab Pages. There is a large market for wikis but you would have to use something easier than markdown, which is hard for us to get away from. We're going after JIRA. In…

Ohh, I really have to stop making snarky comments here :) So I actually looked at migrating to Gitlab due our JIRA pains but it's not really possible if you have some already grown setup (it's not exactly easy to solve so no blame to Gitlab here) - no JIRA import (it's possible with some REST-API fighting), but something easy would be nice: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/2780 - The work-log issue is n…

Sean already did a great job responding to each point here. Just want to add one more quick one. We are working on key-value labels right now, and we think it will solve many of the problems of custom fields. Feel free to take a look and add some comments. Thanks!

https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/9175

Re: Atlassian Acquires AgileCraft for $166M

#80

Post by victorwu »

applecrazy wrote: post #48
sytse wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean we're not going after Confluence or JIRA? Wikis are certainly not a priority for us. I think if you don't separate the proposer from the person who accepts the proposal the wiki tends to grow stale. So we're betting on static websites with GitLab Pages. There is a large market for wikis but you would have to use something easier than markdown, which is hard for us to get away from. We're going after JIRA. In…

The service desk feature is nice, but maybe having a form for people to fill out to file a support request would be even better. That way, people can file requests without directly opening their email client. Just a small thought :)

Thanks for the idea! We have the idea logged here: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/1734. Feel free to add comments there. Thanks!
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