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Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

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Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#131

Post by EForEndeavour »

agumonkey wrote: post #124
todd8 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve moved the goal posts. It’s not that the construction of some thing, anything, that can be used to write with is difficult. As you point out a piece of charcoal isn’t hard to make. Milton Friedman’s point is that even something as simple and inexpensive as a pencil involves people all over the world working together to create it. Some mine graphite, some run ships to move the graphite, some manufacture paint, s…

I agree on goalpost but still differ on Friedman's point. Culture shifts into thinking you need objects to the point of making you forget what you wanted in the first place. Friedman wants to marvel at the thought of his beloved market.

Friedman does wax lyrical about his beloved market toward the end of that video, but the main point I drew from his quote about the pencil is that it's absolutely mind-blowing to stop and contemplate the incredible cooperation and pre-existing systems required to construct so many of the mundane, dirt-cheap objects of the modern world.

The fact that someone could eschew mass-produced lead pencils in favour of a self-made writing implement doesn't diminish the fact that it's practically impossible for any one individual on the planet to ever actually build a pencil you can buy for the equivalent of a few seconds to minutes of labour. That pencil, and so many other mundane items like it, are artifacts beyond the crafting capabilities of any one human.

Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#132

Post by anonymousDan »

make3 wrote: post #42
ipsum2 wrote: post #30

Cheaper than the $150 Google TPU Dev Board, and looks like it can do training as well as inference. Also, doesn't require you to send your model to their company. Nice!

there is no reason to train on that thing (except for zero shot classification demos). any cheap/lower end Nvidia gpu would do a much better job, and you would then transfer the model to the embedded thing.

Can you recommend a cheap/lower end Nvidia GPU for training for someone who just wants to play around with NNs a bit and isn't interested in peak performance? Could I get something for $100 that would be better than my CPU?

Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#133

Post by hvidgaard »

paulmd wrote: post #106
dmos62 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends which component, maybe speakers or headphones, but there seem to be top-quality open-source DACs that are very cheap to assemble or buy assembled. A google search should turn them up. Last time I researched it, I found the headphone DAC that I'd buy if I wanted one, but I can't find it now. It had an interesting story around it. It was released anonymously in a blog and then suddenly, after posting dozens of…

That's NwAvGuy and the ODAC/O2 units. I think "audiophile grade" is an ill-defined target there. You can get headphones like the Superlux HD668B for practically nothing (they were running under $30 at one point), and they sound pretty damned good for a pair of $30 headphones. When I was a kid you paid $30 for a pair of crappy discman headphones let alone a nice pair of over-ear. Meanwhile you've got the name brand Au…

Right on point. It's a difficult topic to navigate in. Most of what you buy in stores are the name, royalties, and R&D of digital circuits and a complex new IoT interface.

For true audiophile gear you pay for them to individually test each and every component. Only select the ones that match, and for the overall circuitry to work as expected. All that manual labor to get the last 5% is very expensive, and completely irrelevant for the vast majority of people. They're going to stream their music from an inferior source anyway.

Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#134

Post by Narishma »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #68
yolobey wrote: post #4

Hope it'll ship with better support that the first Jetson. The one they marketed with all that AI/Machine Vision stuff and then shipped without a camera driver. This is just following Google's Edge TPU, which probably competes with a Raspberry Pi + Movidius stick. The market there is getting interesting.

Yeah! Looks exciting. I will say that the Raspberry Pi is USB 2, so bandwidth between , say, your camera and the Movidius Stick is limited. The google device and this one should have proper high bandwidth interfaces.

Doesn't the Raspberry Pi camera use the CSI connector? If not, why?

Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#135

Post by lallysingh »

llampx wrote: post #110
lnsru wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a procesor design course at the university. Single participants made 68k complexity designs, groups went to 286 and more complex parts. It was 6-8 hours workload every week for 4 months. A year time is a lot! Manufacturing technology is another issue. Same design will deliver different results on 28 nm and 160 nm nodes.

What I wonder about is the 10x factor here - all of these designs have already been invented and are available for perusal. How many people could come up with something like this with nothing but a knowledge of mathematics? I sometimes don't even know if I could invent the wheel if it wasn't already invented.

Ref: https://github.com/dugagjin/MIPS A MIPS implementation in VHDL. Most of the source files are After a little bit of magic, almost any technical field is the application of a few principles.

If you saw a rock roll down a hill, you'd probably wish you could roll your own stuff instead of lifting it.

Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#137

Post by [deleted] »

adrianN wrote: post #82
supernova87a wrote: post #76

I am continually amazed that we're able to buy better and cheaper processors that no one could have dreamed about at such power/cost 50 years ago. I estimate it would take me and you maybe 1 year to learn how to build / assemble most things you find in your house that cost $1000 in a store -- a couch, a rug, even a simple kitchen appliance (the dumb kind). But a CPU / computer? I could not invent that given 10,000 ye…

You should read "From NAND to Tetris". You could totally build a CPU yourself after a year of study. Not something that can compete with a modern microprocessor of course, but then again you probably couldn't build a compressor for a fridge with the same quality as a factory either.

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#138

Post by redsky17 »

adrianN wrote: post #82
supernova87a wrote: post #76

I am continually amazed that we're able to buy better and cheaper processors that no one could have dreamed about at such power/cost 50 years ago. I estimate it would take me and you maybe 1 year to learn how to build / assemble most things you find in your house that cost $1000 in a store -- a couch, a rug, even a simple kitchen appliance (the dumb kind). But a CPU / computer? I could not invent that given 10,000 ye…

You should read "From NAND to Tetris". You could totally build a CPU yourself after a year of study. Not something that can compete with a modern microprocessor of course, but then again you probably couldn't build a compressor for a fridge with the same quality as a factory either.

If you're not counting physical hardware, it can take even less time than that. I built a MIPS processor in verilog over the course of a month or so back in college

Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#139

Post by dagw »

anonymousDan wrote: post #132
make3 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no reason to train on that thing (except for zero shot classification demos). any cheap/lower end Nvidia gpu would do a much better job, and you would then transfer the model to the embedded thing.

Can you recommend a cheap/lower end Nvidia GPU for training for someone who just wants to play around with NNs a bit and isn't interested in peak performance? Could I get something for $100 that would be better than my CPU?

While you can in theory run CUDA on an Nvidia 1030 GPU (currently around $100) it's really not worth it. The cheapest card actually worth buying for ML is the 1050 Ti, which can be had for around $200.

If your budget is $100 I'd take that money and hunt around for various cloud based solutions. Most have introductory offers and/or cheap/free solutions for hobbyists with modest needs. $100 will go a long way on these services if you're careful. Once you've used up your $100 you'll have a much better idea of what, if anything, you actually need.

Re: Nvidia's $99 Jetson Nano Is an AI Computer for DIY Enthusiasts

#140

Post by dragonwriter »

agumonkey wrote: post #109
doomjunky wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at this lead pencil. There's not a single person in the world who could make this pencil. [0] [0]: Milton Friedman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Gppi-O3a8

Sorry to differ, I think this is twisted by an era where liberal market was held as god like status. Take the rubber and metal out because for now. To draw a dark line on a surface, you take the first bit of wood you find, grind it into a point and burn it. You have a pencil. I really believe that the free market centuries made people believe it was the only or most efficient way to get an object done, just like peop…

> I think this is twisted by an era where liberal market was held as god like status.

The author more than the era, but sure. (To the extent it's also true of the era, the author was more of a cause than an effect, being one of the leading evangelists of the market of his generation.)

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