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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#111

Post by Ultramanoid »

A2017U1 wrote: post #62
Ultramanoid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying such thing. Quite the opposite. First of all, China was paid to receive it. And I am pointing to the fact that the Western plastic waste problem ( to the point of the comment saying if you're in the West, whatever happens in China is not something to feel guilty about ), is not limited to the West, when for processing it is sent to Asia.

> First of all, China was paid to receive it. That is completely wrong, you'll need to provide evidence here, it's strange so many replies say the same. China pays for their recycling imports and get a good deal on shipping. Current tariff wars have changed this environment and now they won't take it. California alone earns billions selling waste to them > In 2016, California’s exports of recyclables amounted to 15 m…

Tariffs are not an issue between China and the EU / Japan as they are with the U.S., that has little to do with China's decision to ban imports of trash globally.

You pay recycling companies to process waste, and the cost of doing so locally in the U.S. now after the Chinese ban is so high that it means cities cannot afford it, thus waste that would have been sent to China for recycling is now piling in landfills or being burnt.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/china...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#113

Post by ASlave2Gravity »

verasio wrote: post #99

China. Indonesia. Philippines. Vietnam. Sri Lanka. This chart says it all: https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting... They are everyone's oceans and these countries are disproportionately choking them with plastic. Blame must be focused on them for meaningful change to happen. I'm a foreigner living in one of these countries and it is shocking how absolutely careless and ignorant the majority of…

Doesn't China buy up a lot of US / EU plastic waste via recycling programmes? Are these numbers offset because once China buys the waste, they simply dump it? Are we knowingly selling our plastic waste to a state that will miss-manage it? I know China lately has stopped buying plastic waste from states.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#114

Post by josteink »

ookdatnog wrote: post #86
ecmascript wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy I think you will have to back that statement up if you want to be taken seriously. I for one am certainly not going to stop eating fish and meat, I have been a vegetarian for over a year and I did not fancy it.

> I think you will have to back that statement up if you want to be taken seriously. This is such a mainstream statement that it seems to me entirely reasonable to omit a source. You can find dozens of them by looking up "vegetarianism" on wikipedia and navigating to the "health effects" section.

> This is such a mainstream statement that it seems to me entirely reasonable to omit a source

Only in circles where alternative medicine is practiced, health-advice taken from unscholared internet-blogs and science is generally shunned.

This very extreme claim certainly needs a source to have any sort of credibility.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#115

Post by dalbasal »

ehnto wrote: post #56
cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

Commercial fishing is a lot less important than commercial hunting was 200 years ago. The sea is bigger, and the industry can switch to new species when one gets depleted (eg cod, salmon and tuna were once far more abundant) but the problems are still the problems. A fishery, like a bison herd, cannot handle the might of a modern industry.

Quota systems and controls keep fisheries from immediately collapsing, but there is a real difference between "won't collapse in 3 seasons" and "sustainabe over generations." The wider ecosystem effects are not really known. Big ocean, millions of species, lots of side effects.. bycatch, pollution. There are species we don't know exist going extinct, almost certainly, because of commercial fishing.

Commercial fishing is something we need to grow out of. On land, hunting is rarely a conservation issue today. Habitat is the problem. In the ocean, there is no reason (besides fishing) why we can't have mostly undisturbed ecosystems.

Agriculture replaced market hunting. Sustainable agriculture can replace market fishing. It's the responsible choice to make as a society.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#116

Post by cageface »

josteink wrote: post #114
ookdatnog wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you will have to back that statement up if you want to be taken seriously. This is such a mainstream statement that it seems to me entirely reasonable to omit a source. You can find dozens of them by looking up "vegetarianism" on wikipedia and navigating to the "health effects" section.

> This is such a mainstream statement that it seems to me entirely reasonable to omit a source Only in circles where alternative medicine is practiced, health-advice taken from unscholared internet-blogs and science is generally shunned. This very extreme claim certainly needs a source to have any sort of credibility.

4.5 million Jains in India would be happy to discuss this issue, just for starters. The world is full of healthy vegans and vegetarians.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#117

Post by Numberwang »

isolli wrote: post #85
cageface wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy, and meat & fish are very resource intensive. We're better off redirecting all the resources we currently waste trying to feed 8 billion people this way into sustainable, plant-based diets anyway.

I was vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for 7, yet I started eating meat and fish about a year ago. Here are my thoughts: - I started eating animal products again for health reason; I believe many people can thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, but I couldn't. It makes me unhappy, but there I am. - Similarly vegetarian and vegan for a long time, my wife started craving animal products the minute she got pregnant. And a…

Good on you for rationalizing that choice for yourself.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#118

Post by maccard »

adrianN wrote: post #92
ehnto wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

Poultry is not that terrible for the environment. I haven't seen any comparisons, but I wouldn't be surprised if chicken and fish have similar impact.

I saw this last year -

://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46459714

Claims that on average it's about 20% worse than farmed fish, and about 1/6 of the impact of beef.

I've not read the study to back it, but the article doesn't differentiate between sources of poultry. The environmental impact of factory farmed vs organic free range corn fed chicken may be vastly different

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#119

Post by maccard »

toofy wrote: post #71
notacoward wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think "random idiot" here meant another consumer. It meant an idiot at the recycling company, though it might not be idiocy. The stuff you put out on the curb doesn't just magically vanish the moment the big green truck pulls away. They have to put it somewhere. As one article I read recently put it, most of us (in the US) haven't really been recycling for years. We've just been shipping our carefully sorted…

Is this fake recycling happening on any kind of scale? This seems like something which could be pretty easily mitigated against by citizens following up with their local cities to verify that things are actually ending up at recycling plants. I'd be furious, considering what I pay for these services if I were to find out they aren't actually recycling. I guess I'll have to look into my local situation. This is a frus…

On HN a few days ago I saw [0] that US cities are in fact actively reducing the scope of or removing their recycling programs. Id be furious too if I lived there (not sure if the UK fares any better)

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19410187

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#120

Post by chronolitus »

nukeop wrote: post #93

I eat McDonald's once or twice a month and I'm looked down upon for eating junk food, meanwhile a whale eats nothing but _literal_ junk and it makes the news and the whale is called a victim? Something doesn't add up here.

Is your point that you should be held to the same standards of reasoning ability than a whale?
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