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Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

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Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#231

Post by toast0 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #36
RHSeeger wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, tax refunds are not always tax deductible, either. I paid federal taxes on the previous year's state tax refund this year. How does that make ANY sense?

It makes sense because you didn't pay federal taxes on that amount last year. Ideally your withholding should have been perfect last year and your refund would have been $0, and then you would have paid the federal tax amount on it last year. Relatedly, I got a ~$5k state refund last year and I'm not paying additional federal tax on it this year because the SALT deductions are now gone under Trump's tax changes, so m…

Into the weeds a bit here, but if you deducted your payments to the state in 2017 on your federal 2017 tax return (filed in 2018), and you got a refund from the state in 2018, you should be entering that on your federal 2018 tax return.

Since you won't be deducing SALT in 2018, any state refund in 2019 wouldn't be reportable for federal tax year 2019.

If this were otherwise, people would have purposefully massively over pay to the state in 2017, claim a large deduction in tax year 2017, get a large refund in 2018, and not have to pay back the deduction they didn't really deserve.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#232

Post by petre »

Why fine? Switzerland has a different approach. Regardless if you're keeping your property empty, you rent it or you're living in it, you're palying the same amount of tax - what you'd pay on the rent if you'd rent it. The tax is adjusted evey six months or so with the medium rent.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#233

Post by otherme123 »

A lot of text, but didn't read the obvious: Spain is having three elections in the next month. This is an electoral stunt with no reality behind. The statistics show that Barcelona (and Madrid) are at a historical minimum of empty houses available, yet the spanish population is migrating from smaller cities to the big ones. This is pushing the rents up, and the politicians are obligated to "do something". Colau, Barcelona major, has already fought against AirBnB last year, turned Barcelona in a heaven for squatters, and now this. Rents keeps going up, as the problem shown in the stats is the lack OF NEW HOUSES.

Spain suffered the worst housing bubble in 2007, and even now talking about building more is anathema. For Colau is even worst, as she built his political career fighting against the bubble.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#234

Post by kgwgk »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #206
crazygringo wrote: post #201

In this conversation, it seems like people ignore the fact that there's a societal benefit to leaving buildings empty, at least in economic theory. Which is that it's keeping the space open for more productive use in the long term. Suppose you own a storefront or apartment that could fetch $5K/month right now, but you think it will fetch $10K/month in 3 years, and that leases are 10 years long. Well, the people/busin…

Hmm. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't understand how more efficient rent-collection (and literal rent-collection at that) is productive. I mean, isn't it definitionally not "productive"? I mean you can make the argument that by being more efficient at rent collection over some time horizon you funnel more money to yourself and other local industries but isn't this basically just a cost to everyone else at every o…

“the people/businesses who can afford $10K/month are by definition more economically productive”

The idea is that letting the space empty now makes it available for “more productive” activities later.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#235

Post by sveme »

supernova87a wrote: post #196

I'm curious about the legal grounds for such a tax or fine. If local zoning already governs what may be built or operated on a property, what principle allows a government to levy fines for lack of use of a property that has been built and maintained to the required zoning? (if to all other requirements, the property is not derelict, in poor condition, a blight or public nuisance?) I didn't think that you could be co…

Can only state the case for Germany, here, the constitution explicitly states that "Ownership entails responsibilities" and that ownership is not absolute but subject to greater good considerations.

If someone would implement a law or rule like the one in Barcelona (or probably Vancouver) in Germany, it would probably be based on such a consideration.

IANAL, mind.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#236

Post by londons_explore »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #192
lallysingh wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our regular human ideas for excessive don't count. There's a legal standard there. I don't know it.

Nobody does, really. It has to be defined in context of the 'gravity of the offence'. I'm sure someone could make a good argument that 1% of the value of a property is reasonable.

As a 'fine', 100 or even 200 percent of a property could be argued reasonable. 'You aren't using this property as the law intended, so you have to give it to us and pay a penalty'.

If I steal an apple from Walmart, should the fine be 1 percent of the value of the apple? Clearly not.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#237

Post by collyw »

otherme123 wrote: post #233

A lot of text, but didn't read the obvious: Spain is having three elections in the next month. This is an electoral stunt with no reality behind. The statistics show that Barcelona (and Madrid) are at a historical minimum of empty houses available, yet the spanish population is migrating from smaller cities to the big ones. This is pushing the rents up, and the politicians are obligated to "do something". Colau, Barc…

Barcelona had a reputation for squatters before Colau was elected.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#239

Post by collyw »

bloomca wrote: post #116
pbiggar wrote: post #35

Does anyone know why is it that seemingly every major city is having an affordability crisis at the same time?

I think it is a consequence of globalization. I don't have any statistics to prove it, but I think that people in general are not very keen to dig very deep, therefore everybody knows about certain number of "cool" cities, which everybody travels to and tries to move. So, all popular big cities experience this influx of people moving there; expats have more and more options nowadays, so they also move to only cool pl…

Its where most of the jobs are.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#240

Post by collyw »

crazygringo wrote: post #201

In this conversation, it seems like people ignore the fact that there's a societal benefit to leaving buildings empty, at least in economic theory. Which is that it's keeping the space open for more productive use in the long term. Suppose you own a storefront or apartment that could fetch $5K/month right now, but you think it will fetch $10K/month in 3 years, and that leases are 10 years long. Well, the people/busin…

"the people/businesses who can afford $10K/month are by definition more economically productive"

They are richer, not necessarily more economically productive. Making money by hoarding assets isn't my definition of economically productive.

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