Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty • Hacker News Board

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#31

Post by devindotcom » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:22 AM UTC

hpe8fq wrote: post #12

How about letting people build more and taller buildings? How about that, huh?

FTA

"The problems the fines are intended to combat began in 2007, when the financial crisis brought an epidemic of foreclosures on homes across Spain. After a nationwide wave of repossessions, banks found themselves the owners of newly vast portfolios of housing whose tenants had been evicted. Put off by the cost of renovations and wary of their potential obligations to rental tenants as landlords, many banks simply left their buildings empty, waiting for the market to bounce back so they could sell them at a higher price, or seeking permission for non-residential uses such as hotels."

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#32

Post by president » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

San Francisco recently did a similar thing but with commercial storefronts: https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Vacancy-glut-in....

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#33

Post by CydeWeys » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #21

Scoundreller wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditionally, you only pay a fine if you’re caught.

Cynically, one could claim the same about taxes.

Not paying taxes is a criminal matter, though. The fines being assessed are civil matters.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#34

Post by colechristensen » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

Pirolita wrote: post #18

People should be able to do whatever they want with their properties

What about pooled investment funds? Are they "people" who should be able to do whatever they want with their properties?

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#35

Post by pbiggar » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

Does anyone know why is it that seemingly every major city is having an affordability crisis at the same time?

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#36

Post by CydeWeys » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:25 AM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #22

kradroy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US fines are not tax deductible, so that's one fiscal difference between taxes and fines. I have no idea if Spain considers fines to be tax deductible or not.

Interestingly, tax refunds are not always tax deductible, either. I paid federal taxes on the previous year's state tax refund this year. How does that make ANY sense?

It makes sense because you didn't pay federal taxes on that amount last year. Ideally your withholding should have been perfect last year and your refund would have been $0, and then you would have paid the federal tax amount on it last year.

Relatedly, I got a ~$5k state refund last year and I'm not paying additional federal tax on it this year because the SALT deductions are now gone under Trump's tax changes, so my state tax burden doesn't affect my federal tax burden anymore.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#37

Post by cycrutchfield » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:25 AM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #34

Pirolita wrote: post #18

People should be able to do whatever they want with their properties

What about pooled investment funds? Are they "people" who should be able to do whatever they want with their properties?

Why does it matter what sort of entity owns a piece of property? They pay property taxes, they should get to do what they want with their property.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#38

Post by wmf » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:26 AM UTC

pbiggar wrote: post #35

Does anyone know why is it that seemingly every major city is having an affordability crisis at the same time?

Because capital is global and it's flowing into all major cities at the same time?

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#39

Post by Scoundreller » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:27 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #24

Scoundreller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or lower one with the revenue from the other... I also prefer sales taxes over income taxes with cheques to counter their regressive nature. And carbon taxes over sales and income taxes. Taxing destruction is a good thing.

That's fair but I don't think, at least with empty buildings, the revenues would be anywhere close to being able to replace a significant portion of income taxes. The scales are vastly different. But I should apologize for an overly snarky initial comment.

Depends on how much unused real estate there is, and what counts as unused. There are beautiful places out there filled with cottages that are unused 80-90% of the year, while the locals struggle.

Taxes serve as a discouragement, so let’s tax the harmful things first. Then those that can afford it without any real harm to quality of life, then lastly everyone else.

An underused property tax hits the first two really well.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#40

Post by CydeWeys » Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 12:27 AM UTC

pbiggar wrote: post #35

Does anyone know why is it that seemingly every major city is having an affordability crisis at the same time?

Is this new? Was the same thing not happening in, say, any other urban boom time, like the mid 1920s?

I think there's always going to be a flux of people who aren't "keeping up" with the increase in costs as much as others are, and having to drop out of the most expensive areas as a result. and likewise, there's people from the rest of the country who are improving their situation and can move up to the "big time".