Eliminating Robocalls

#1

Post by johns » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#2

Post by StudentStuff » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:10 PM UTC

Getting STIR & SHAKEN implemented so we have proper trust of the caller ID is going to be a massive undertaking for the industry as a whole. T-Mobile and Verizon have implemented it in limited forms internally, but they have no interest in making their implementations interoperate, let alone work with the other RBOCs, CLECs and their resellers (Twilio in this case).

STIR/SHAKEN also can break call forwarding, as a forwarded call may get stripped of the forwarded from header by an intermediary carrier, resulting in an unvalidated caller ID getting passed, causing the call to not ring the destination.

Overall, the telcom industry is stuck in the past, with security being a joke. TLS Registration & SRTP are rarely used, most carriers sling calls bare over the internet hoping for the best.

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#3

Post by CharlesColeman » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:33 PM UTC

StudentStuff wrote: post #2

Getting STIR & SHAKEN implemented so we have proper trust of the caller ID is going to be a massive undertaking for the industry as a whole. T-Mobile and Verizon have implemented it in limited forms internally, but they have no interest in making their implementations interoperate, let alone work with the other RBOCs, CLECs and their resellers (Twilio in this case). STIR/SHAKEN also can break call forwarding, as a fo…

> T-Mobile and Verizon have implemented it in limited forms internally, but they have no interest in making their implementations interoperate, let alone work with the other RBOCs, CLECs and their resellers (Twilio in this case).

Why would that be? I know nothing of STIR & SHAKEN, but if it's meant to reduce spam, I would think all legitimate operators would want it to work in an interoperable way.

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#4

Post by jjoonathan » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

CharlesColeman wrote: post #3

StudentStuff wrote: post #2

Getting STIR & SHAKEN implemented so we have proper trust of the caller ID is going to be a massive undertaking for the industry as a whole. T-Mobile and Verizon have implemented it in limited forms internally, but they have no interest in making their implementations interoperate, let alone work with the other RBOCs, CLECs and their resellers (Twilio in this case). STIR/SHAKEN also can break call forwarding, as a fo…

> T-Mobile and Verizon have implemented it in limited forms internally, but they have no interest in making their implementations interoperate, let alone work with the other RBOCs, CLECs and their resellers (Twilio in this case). Why would that be? I know nothing of STIR & SHAKEN, but if it's meant to reduce spam, I would think all legitimate operators would want it to work in an interoperable way.

Why would you think that?

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#5

Post by Noah-Huppert » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

I wrote a tool which uses Twilio to screen out robocalls: https://github.com/noah-huppert/human-call-filter

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#6

Post by CharlesColeman » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:43 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #4

CharlesColeman wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> T-Mobile and Verizon have implemented it in limited forms internally, but they have no interest in making their implementations interoperate, let alone work with the other RBOCs, CLECs and their resellers (Twilio in this case). Why would that be? I know nothing of STIR & SHAKEN, but if it's meant to reduce spam, I would think all legitimate operators would want it to work in an interoperable way.

Why would you think that?

Because individually they'll do a worse job of mitigating spam than if they try to mitigate it collectively.

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#7

Post by dgnorton » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

Noah-Huppert wrote: post #5

I wrote a tool which uses Twilio to screen out robocalls: https://github.com/noah-huppert/human-call-filter

Ditto, except the one I wrote only works for landlines. https://github.com/dgnorton/norobo

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#8

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:57 PM UTC

CharlesColeman wrote: post #6

jjoonathan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think that?

Because individually they'll do a worse job of mitigating spam than if they try to mitigate it collectively.

They’ll collaborate, as soon as they figure out how to charge for spam filtering.

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#9

Post by minikites » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:58 PM UTC

Was there a reason the author redacted parts of the robocall phone numbers? They're robocalls, the numbers should be garbage by definition.

Re: Eliminating Robocalls

#10

Post by kyrra » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

StudentStuff wrote: post #2

Getting STIR & SHAKEN implemented so we have proper trust of the caller ID is going to be a massive undertaking for the industry as a whole. T-Mobile and Verizon have implemented it in limited forms internally, but they have no interest in making their implementations interoperate, let alone work with the other RBOCs, CLECs and their resellers (Twilio in this case). STIR/SHAKEN also can break call forwarding, as a fo…

The FCC has a page tracking the response by the major carriers[0].

Also, from what the FCC chair is saying, while nothing is forcing the carriers to play nicely, he is basically warning them if they don't work together to create/implement a spec to help with the problem, the FCC will force something (that probably won't be as easy to deal with). WSJ had a podcast interviewing him recently about it[1].

[0] https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication

[1] (interview starts 23 minutes in) http://www.wsj.com/podcasts/instant-message/20-tesla-got-a-b...