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How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

fivethirtyeight.com

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Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#181

Post by MertsA »

kazinator wrote: post #155
MertsA wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying but that's why I used chicken broth as an example as that has tons of free glutamate as well as sodium to go with it. As for free vs. bound glutamate, if it's bound glutamate it's not going to contribute to taste, if you can taste that umami flavor then it's free glutamate you're tasting. (side note, glutamic acid on it's own will dissociate in water just like any other ionic bond, but I get…

> I use MSG on a lot of dishes myself I use peanut butter myself; people who have problems with it are just a bunch of flakes making it up. My personal experience is all that is real.

The only reason why I mentioned that is to suggest that I know what I proper amount of MSG to add for seasoning is. The amounts in those studies are very excessive and unrealistic.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#182

Post by technocratius »

kazinator wrote: post #40
pmoriarty wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it truly is a settled question that MSG causes headaches in humans , when the MSG is ingested (not injected ) in amounts humans normally eat, then it should be easy to find studies in reputable journals to this effect. Do you have a link to such studies? The injection/ingestion distinction is important, because when one ingests something, the entire quantity is not instantly dumped in to the bloodstream as it is w…

By the way, injection would be a good way to double-blind an MSG experiment with humans properly: you can't taste an injection. Nobody can tell whether they are being injected saline or MSG. And nobody is claiming that the effects of MSG are not dose-dependent; that there is no consumption threshold below which sufferers feel no ill effects. Those who believe that any amount of MSG, no matter how miniscule, can cause…

How about...putting it in a capsule?

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#183

Post by kazinator »

MertsA wrote: post #181
kazinator wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use MSG on a lot of dishes myself I use peanut butter myself; people who have problems with it are just a bunch of flakes making it up. My personal experience is all that is real.

The only reason why I mentioned that is to suggest that I know what I proper amount of MSG to add for seasoning is. The amounts in those studies are very excessive and unrealistic.

"The amounts in the studies don't conform to my culinary preferences" doesn't amount to "MSG doesn't cause headaches".

If the small amounts of MSG that you prefer caused headaches in a significant fraction of the general population, it would not be usable at all, and we wouldn't be here talking about it.

There is a combination of circumstances: most people seem to tolerate larger amounts, whereas a few people don't. And, outside of carefully controlled name-brand processed foods, misuse can happen: the problematic quantities are not that far-fetched. A stray teaspoon here or there can be critical.

It's a recipe, pardon the pun, for a controversial issue.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#184

Post by icelancer »

thedaemon wrote: post #179
icelancer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decent vine ripened heirloom tomatoes where you are If this is in America, not grown in your own garden, I'd love to hear where this is, because tomatoes in Seattle are absolutely terrible.

The south east has amazing tomatoes. I do miss them as I'm currently in Colorado and it's hard to find good full flavored tomatoes.

No doubt. Midwest too during the right seasons.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#185

Post by thorwasdfasdf »

MSG is well known by scientists to lead to obesity. In fact, they know it so well, that they've created a very reliable and reproducible procedure for it. Whenever they need to experiment on Rats, they put them under a procedure called: MSG induced Obesity. And just like that their appetites shoot through the roof and the rats reliably get really fat, every time.

Anecdotally, I eat asian food on a regular basis and I can tell whenever it's got MSG in it just by the taste. It gives you a sort of High and really drives your appetite making you feel you can't get enough of the dish. For someone like me, there's a huge noticeable difference between a dish with MSG and one without.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#186

Post by loeg »

kazinator wrote: post #52
Uberphallus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No[0], it won't [1], that's the point of the article. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4870486 [1] https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abstract/125/11/2891S/47...

[0] is shill work by researchers working for a MSG manufacturer. I have seen this before. One even has an "ajiusa.com" e-mail address right there, /palmface/. Can't comment on on [1]: the entire paper is paywalled as far as I can see, not even a hint at the results. Let's try something else: Graham TE, Sgro V, Friars D, Gibala MJ. 2000. Glutamate ingestion: the plasma and muscle free amino acid pools of resting human…

> Let's try something else

N=8 or 9 (low power), 150 mg/kg(!) doses.

That's like ingesting 11 g of the stuff for a 75 kg adult.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#187

Post by MertsA »

kazinator wrote: post #180
equalunique wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in restaurants and have seen chefs add two heaping table spoons of it to a pot of soup without hesitating.

That's something like 40 to 50 grams. Say it's an 8 liter pot, serving 16. That's like 2.5g to 3.1g per person, ouch! Then there is glutamate in that pot already from natural sources as well as possibly ingredients like processed meats and whatnot.

No, it's actually more like 24g to ~30g depending on how "heaping" the tablespoons were, you might be thinking of the specific gravity and using that to estimate the weight but an important consideration is that it's in a small crystalline form. 1/4 tsp of MSG is 1.0g which puts a tbsp at 12g. An estimate of only 16 servings is probably a bit on the low side as well. Even assuming all of that, that still only amounts to 24 mg/kg for a 70kg person whereas the paper you referenced indicated there was a threshold effect and used doses of 150 mg/kg.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#188

Post by kazinator »

MertsA wrote: post #187
kazinator wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's something like 40 to 50 grams. Say it's an 8 liter pot, serving 16. That's like 2.5g to 3.1g per person, ouch! Then there is glutamate in that pot already from natural sources as well as possibly ingredients like processed meats and whatnot.

No, it's actually more like 24g to ~30g depending on how "heaping" the tablespoons were, you might be thinking of the specific gravity and using that to estimate the weight but an important consideration is that it's in a small crystalline form. 1/4 tsp of MSG is 1.0g which puts a tbsp at 12g. An estimate of only 16 servings is probably a bit on the low side as well. Even assuming all of that, that still only amounts…

> might be thinking of the specific gravity and using that to estimate the weight but an important consideration is that it's in a small crystalline form

I'm relying on the density of MSG being similar to that of sugar, and both being in crystalline form, then working from information around the web about the mass of heaped tablespoons of sugar.

(I know that not all crystals are of the same shape and not all pack the same. Something with needle-like crystals will end up fairly fluffy, unless mechanically crushed.)

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#189

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #158
TehCorwiz wrote: post #133

It's present in large quantities in Doritos, most other packaged salty snack foods, Kentucky Fried Chicken, soy extract, shiitake mushrooms, broccoli, walnuts, etc. I highly doubt MSG has any health risk associated with it due to its natural presence in many foods. It's more likely that it became a racist stand-in, considering there are other false Chinese food tropes: Quality or source of meat (allusions to cats and…

The race thing is a complete red-herring. The only question that matters is "How does it make me personally feel after I eat it?" It really doesn't even matter how it makes the average statistical sample psychology students feel.

> The only question that matters is "How does it make me personally feel after I eat it?"

Even this question is problematic because of the nocebo effect.

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