My understanding is that the younger you are the easier it is to pick up a foreign language. Whereas that doesn't appear to be the case for computer languages. Learning either creates opportunities for life changing opportunities for the better, but I think it would be a mistake for people to forego learning a foreign language at that age. If they want to learn programming languages as well they will, but I know lots of people that regret not learning a 2nd language earlier in life.
Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
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Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#12My understanding is that the younger you are the easier it is to pick up a foreign language. Whereas that doesn't appear to be the case for computer languages. Learning either creates opportunities for life changing opportunities for the better, but I think it would be a mistake for people to forego learning a foreign language at that age. If they want to learn programming languages as well they will, but I know lots…
> My understanding is that the younger you are the easier it is to pick up a foreign language.
IIRC, while that's long been a popular belief, it's not all that clear that it's true; a major effect, if not the whole effect, comes from it being easier to spend more time on it when younger. This portion of the effect is equally true of computer languages.
Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#13My experience with written/spoken languages vs programming languages has been vastly different.
In my early 20s I picked up enough Spanish working in a restaurant to have conversations about simple topics/small talk, including native speakers at family dinners. Not much effort.
In my late 20s using Anki (SRS) I learned enough Russian to mostly understand radio broadcasts and television, but I never practiced speaking.
In my mid-to-late 30s I started learning Korean also using Anki, and it has been a grinding and slow process. After many months of on again/off again studying, I can pick out some words and use context to maybe understand what is being spoken.
Obviously the curve has gotten a bit steeper with each language being further away from English, but definitely a salient reminder about the ability to learn new languages with age.
Programming languages on the other hand have been a much different experience, not nearly as difficult to pick up. I haven't considered exactly why it's so different until now.
Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#14No, it is an alien language.
It's definitely not natural language.
Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#15[flagged]
Golden headline opportunity:
Is Betteridge's Law of Headlines True?
Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#16Computer languages are called languages for a reason. They have syntax, grammar, vocabulary, and are used for communication. People who don't speak english for example but who read python can often read code you wrote and understand it. Math is a similar thing and sometimes called a universal language. These are different sorts of languages from day to day spoken and written languages for general communication, but t…
I don't agree with all of your claims anyways, but all of this seems to miss the key fact point the "foreign language" requirement inherently implies a language to communicate with other humans. Hence why Sign language can meet the foreign language requirement in some schools but not C++.
Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#17My understanding is that the younger you are the easier it is to pick up a foreign language. Whereas that doesn't appear to be the case for computer languages. Learning either creates opportunities for life changing opportunities for the better, but I think it would be a mistake for people to forego learning a foreign language at that age. If they want to learn programming languages as well they will, but I know lots…
> My understanding is that the younger you are the easier it is to pick up a foreign language. IIRC, while that's long been a popular belief, it's not all that clear that it's true; a major effect, if not the whole effect, comes from it being easier to spend more time on it when younger. This portion of the effect is equally true of computer languages.
While the “critical period” hypothesis is not proven, language acquisition is an automatic process for almost every human child, given that they are in an environment where they are being spoken to.
Also, recent research suggests that the ability to differentiate sounds of a certain language rapidly narrows after a child leaves the baby stage.
> By 10 to 12 months, however, monolingual babies were no longer detecting sounds in the second language, only in the language they usually heard.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/health/views/11klass.html
Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My understanding is that the younger you are the easier it is to pick up a foreign language. IIRC, while that's long been a popular belief, it's not all that clear that it's true; a major effect, if not the whole effect, comes from it being easier to spend more time on it when younger. This portion of the effect is equally true of computer languages.
While the “critical period” hypothesis is not proven, language acquisition is an automatic process for almost every human child, given that they are in an environment where they are being spoken to. Also, recent research suggests that the ability to differentiate sounds of a certain language rapidly narrows after a child leaves the baby stage. > By 10 to 12 months, however, monolingual babies were no longer detecting…
I feel like I could pretty easily be fluent in more natural languages if, as with programming languages, "fluency" included being able to look things up in reference manuals, and if my expression of the language was limited to reading and writing, rather than listening and speaking.
Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#19To make the counter argument, it is rather unfortunate that the way foreign languages are normally taught in U.S. schools (grammar first to make it painful) leads to the cliche of “I took 4 years of French in high school and I can only speak very little.” On this line, make computer languages a foreign language, as schools do a poor job overall teaching a foreign language so that it can be truly acquired. The advanta…
Well four years of a language won't result in you being a very good speaker anyway. The key here is that foreign language classes also teach you about other cultures, which is definitely important.
Re: Code is not a foreign language, and high schools shouldn't treat it that way
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
While the “critical period” hypothesis is not proven, language acquisition is an automatic process for almost every human child, given that they are in an environment where they are being spoken to. Also, recent research suggests that the ability to differentiate sounds of a certain language rapidly narrows after a child leaves the baby stage. > By 10 to 12 months, however, monolingual babies were no longer detecting…
I feel like I could pretty easily be fluent in more natural languages if, as with programming languages, "fluency" included being able to look things up in reference manuals, and if my expression of the language was limited to reading and writing, rather than listening and speaking.
Yes, you have identified why computer language “fluency” is not on the same level as foreign language “fluency”. While you can communicate with reading and writing in a foreign language, it limits your ability to connect with people. Whereas with computer languages, it is almost all reading and writing, especially in whiteboard interviews :)