To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars • Hacker News Board

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#241

Post by ngrilly » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #115

educationdata wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Car is not just the "culture", car serves our need. If you are young without kids, it may not make much difference for you to ride a car, or take a bus, or a train, subway, etc. But if you have a family, it makes a huge pain without your own vehicle. If the city of future requires families to abandon their own vehicle, it is not the correct city of future. Just design a better one.

Many families in European cities live just fine without a car. My family never had a car and it wasn't "a huge pain".

In which country and city have you been living as a family with children?

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#242

Post by 0xffff2 » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #216

rhacker wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also I'll tell you why sprawl exists: Sound. Whether that is a car driving by or a neighbor having a party. Some people just don't want to hear shit from you, ever. It is easier to justify making work far away from home at the expense of our kid's future air quality when in one case you hear chirping birds all day, in another you hear BUMP BUMP BUMP every 2 minutes. Sound is the number one cause of stress and people…

Subways are underground

Is this meant to contribute in some way? I honestly have no idea what this seemingly random phrase is supposed to convey.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#243

Post by Kaiyou » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #28

lazyjones wrote: post #24

Improving life in cities is a matter of fixing existing problems, like poor public transport and pollution from combustion engines and heating. Building a "feel good" fantasy around the hatred of cars isn't going to improve anything, it'll just replace the current best choice for individual transport with something inferior, as well as destroy the economy (which depends on roads for logistics and public services).

I don't think its a hatred of cars. Its just cars are so entrenched in western cultures that its easy to overlook all the problems. All those things you cited are all exacerbated by the car. Electric cars will solve the pollution issue, but they are still cars, with all the issues they bring.

Even with all their problems, they are still the best and often only solution. They move on your schedule, they stop on your schedule, they make it easy to move more stuff than you can otherwise carry from your house to wherever you want to move it. And their cheaper than public transport, too.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#244

Post by francisofascii » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

rhacker wrote: post #209

dkural wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is an extreme precisely due to these social and emotional reasons. It's shocking to me how this article fails to mention even once that a lot of post WWII suburbanization was due to white flight. The article states: "Millions of soldiers had come home from World War II to overcrowded, run-down cities; their new families needed a place to live." "Overcrowded, run-down": who all of a sudden "overcrowded" these c…

Also I'll tell you why sprawl exists: Sound. Whether that is a car driving by or a neighbor having a party. Some people just don't want to hear shit from you, ever. It is easier to justify making work far away from home at the expense of our kid's future air quality when in one case you hear chirping birds all day, in another you hear BUMP BUMP BUMP every 2 minutes. Sound is the number one cause of stress and people…

Which is another great reason to get cars out of cities. The best time to be walking in a city is during a heavy snow storm when the cars are gone. Bikes and electric buses are fairly quiet, keep those.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#245

Post by asdff » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

scriptkiddy wrote: post #222

I live in Los Angeles; The Mecca for the automobile. Back in the early 20th century, the city was trying really hard to invest in public transportation through the use of electric street cars. Unfortunately, car manufacturers were able to weasel their way into the pockets of the city planners and put a stop to that. We have a problem in Los Angeles. And that problem is that it's almost impossible to live close to whe…

Getting to El Segundo is tough, and will be improved in a couple of years, but when you worked in Culver City you could have taken the red to expo line, it would be a little over an hour on that route, depending on how close you are to the stations.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#246

Post by bluGill » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #61

Shivetya wrote: post #40

Cars are not the cause of the issue with cities, cars are symptom of bad zoning and regulation which more times than not prevents owners of property from doing what they want. when every new building requires effectively bring special interest groups, politicians, regulatory boards, and unions, their due is it a surprise cities are not getting better. they are serving a politically connected elite, not the people who…

I agree. Cars are a solution to a (set of) problem. Remove the problem(s), remove the cars. Cars, also, not really that big of a problem in themselves. Commuting is the problem. This is a symptom of depressed wages; people are willing to spend extra time (commute) in place of extra money (rent).

People are willing to spend time on the car commute because zoning won't allow you a good job to exist within walking distance of a house. Shopping isn't allowed within walking distance of either of the above either. We are back to square one: zoning won't allow anything other than car oriented lifestyles.

It is a self reinforcing vicious cycle. You can break it anywhere. I recommend started with breaking zoning because it is least painful. If you eliminate cars people who currently depend on cars will be in trouble since they cannot live their life. Eliminate the need far cars is a much slower thing that won't have any noticeable affect for 20 years, but it is a much less painful transition.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#247

Post by JDiculous » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

I see it less about eliminating cars (though that would be awesome if possible) and more about giving people alternatives (public transit, walking), which you don't have in American suburbia.

Much of the rest of the world has already figured it out. I'm in a "suburb" of Seoul right now. I can get to Gangnam in 30 minutes door to door via the subway (subway ticket is ~$2 each way). I'm a short walk (Meanwhile back at my parents' house in the suburbs of Washington DC, the closest commercial business I can walk to is a gas station 20 minutes away, next to an ugly car-ridden highway. The nearest grocery store would require crossing that wide road and walking an additional 10-15 minutes through a massive parking lot. There is no viable public transport - if I want to take the subway into DC I need to drive 15 minutes to the nearest subway station (subway ticket is ~$5-8 I believe). Although my immediate neighborhood is very nice in the sense that there are a lot of trees, there actually aren't any parks (unless you count the local elementary school) or businesses of any form, including simple convenience stores (something I noticed is commonplace in most of the rest of the world).

Everytime I'm at my parents' house I'm completely dependent on having a vehicle to do anything, and bored out of my mind within about a week because it's extraordinarily isolating. I get very little exercise because I end up just staying in my house all day because there's little to do. On the other hand I can be in "city"-like suburbs like the one I'm in now and not feel lonely even if I don't talk to anyone because I can just step outside and there are people everywhere, or go walk to one of the million coffee shops nearby that are always packed with people hanging out.

I despise American suburbs. Who decided that the "American Dream" is owning a single-family home in the suburbs? I guess I'm just not enough of a hermit to enjoy that lifestyle.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#248

Post by 0xffff2 » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

wozniacki wrote: post #229

jniedrauer wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After spending a lot of time in clean mountain air, it's gotten to the point where I can taste the fumes in the air in the United States. It's noxious. I run very early in the morning before anyone starts driving to avoid it.

After spending a lot of time in clean mountain air May I ask where this mountain air was and why you had to relocate to a fume-ridden place in United States? Is it for economic mobility? If that's the case shouldn't you consider taking a hit in that lone aspect, for a better quality of living? I'm sure you will be gainfully employed breathing clean, crisp mountain air provided your skills are in demand. You'll just m…

As someone in a similar situation, I think you're underestimating the potential economic hit. I own a house in rural Oregon, but I also work and rent an apartment in the bay area.

First of all, my house in the clean mountain air is also at the very edge of the electric grid. I have utility-provided power and telephone, but I'm so far out that the phone company won't offer me DSL at any speed. So I'm stuck with satellite internet, which really isn't suitable for remote work.

Second, almost no one offers a flat pay-scale that ignores your home address. Incredibly, this has meant that so far renting an expensive one bedroom apartment in the bay in addition to my mortgage is a much better economic decision than finding a remote job that would let me leave the bay behind.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#249

Post by jakeinspace » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #157

jakeinspace wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like my experience living in Houston. Of course I'd hate living here without a car, I did it for a few months and it's ridiculous. But compared to Montreal, Sydney, Toronto, or even Philadelphia (my points of reference), this is far and away the worst living experience. My commute to work is 15 minutes, which isn't too bad. It used to be a 10-minute bike ride or 20-minute walk, which was both healthier and mor…

Different strokes for different folks. My suburban neighborhood is very socially active, we all know each other very well. I know their kids and vice versa, etc. What I find draining is all the noise when I go downtown, and being around so many strangers. I visit friends who live in condos downtown and they don't know their shared-wall neighbors as well as I know mine in the next house over. Everyone just retreats ba…

I'm sure my experience is partly due to my own learned preferences, as well as the specifics of my neighborhood. I know there are nice suburban and rural areas to live, and I hope that with time I develop a greater appreciation for what's here.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#250

Post by bluGill » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

Sacho wrote: post #93

syshum wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know people that value their time... For me to use Public Transport here would increase my commute time to work by order of magnitude, not to mention all the places I go weekly that is not on a public transit stop or would require multiple line hops and be many times more time consuming than if I just drove directly their in my own personal vehicle Public transport only works in area with High Population Densi…

I can't imagine how bad public transport must be to increase your commute time by an order of magnitude . I use public transport precisely because I value my time - it takes longer(around x1.5) than using a car, but that time is relaxing, can be used to read a book, listen to a podcast or just order your thoughts. Time spent in a car is stressful and requires your focus and attention. I'm not sure what kind of popula…

It depends on local details. In most large cities public transit assumes you live in the suburbs and work downtown. Jobs are moving to the suburbs, to get to them means a ride downtown, and then a ride back out. I know of people with a 4 mile commute who drive (why they don't bike is a good question) because they bus ride would be 3 hours each way.