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How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

fivethirtyeight.com

131–140 of 190 posts

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#131
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reactions to MSG are not allergic. It's not like eating something cooked in a pot that previously had shrimp type of thing. A fairly macroscopically large dose of the stuff does something with the blood flow in veins around the head or sensitivity of nerves or something. It's not a serious medical condition, like an allergic attack; just a nuisance.

Can you provide some studies that prove the effects you are describing? I have definitely looked, but the only credible studies I've found conclude there is absolutely no way to get an adverse response unless you are eating multiple grams of pure MSG on a completely empty stomach with no other food. That is the "best case" scenario, there's plenty of studies concluding they can't find any evidence at all.

Unfortunately not everything has been studied. For my case, there are a lot of celiacs that report sinus headaches [1], but I can't find a single paper on it. Is it a real problem? Definitely, I would love to be able to eat whatever. Can I point to research? Nope.

1. https://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/coeliac-disease-sinusit...

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#132
Can't find any science in that article or its links? Just pop culture references.

Best I can find say "Further study needed" or "Effect is uncommon". Neither of which deny there can be a link between MSG and headaches at least for some people.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#133
It's present in large quantities in Doritos, most other packaged salty snack foods, Kentucky Fried Chicken, soy extract, shiitake mushrooms, broccoli, walnuts, etc.

I highly doubt MSG has any health risk associated with it due to its natural presence in many foods.

It's more likely that it became a racist stand-in, considering there are other false Chinese food tropes: Quality or source of meat (allusions to cats and dogs), cleanliness of kitchens, MSG, etc.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#134
post #94
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't presume, ask; something like "do you have any dietary requirements?" along with a dinner invitation. Covers everything from vegetarianism to highly specific allergies. Also puts the ball in the other person's court to be clear upfront before anything is cooked or purchased.

Nobody will mention MSG in this scenario unless they have a very acute allergy to it.

Or they have an irrational fear of it. Same goes for GM etc.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#135
post #68
post #13

Just use yeast extract and magically nobody will get headaches.

I wish people would stop using yeast extract and just stick to MSG. Yeast extract always leaves a weird taste in my mouth that won't go away for hours. It's even worse that almost all kinds of chips available in my country that aren't just plain salt use yeast extract these days.

Stop eating chips? Your body will thank you.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#136
post #7

I've isolated MSG as a cause of sinus headaches for me, along with a handful of other foods. It is in some flavored chips, and the first few times when going back and trying to figure out what caused my headache I was surprised to see it in the ingredient list since it has such a stigma. I also run into it at kbbq places mixed in with the salt. Not saying it is bad for everyone, but it is a consistent issue for me.

Not sure you've "proven" it's MSG though. Warm up some chocolate cubes, sprinkle msg and sandwich the cubes so it's in the middle. Then ask an SO to randomize and give you chocolate with or without msg every few days without telling you and note when you get headaches. My initial guess is that doing this 6-9 times you should get sufficient signal (if it's indeed true that MSG absolutely gives you headaches Everytime…

I get where you're coming from but my diet is simple enough at this point that the stuff is isolated. I had sinus headaches for 23 years. I slowly cut out foods over a period of 5 years to find triggers. I eat the same thing everyday now that I know what not to eat.

I do check the ingredients first now, but previously it was all reverse engineering from getting a headache to going back and seeing what I ate. I'd happily do a study in a lab, if it meant published research was going to be put out. The sinus headaches are miserable enough that I'll never be doing it just for interest.

Chocolate is a no go because I've cut out sugar and caffeine as well. I mostly eat meat, non-gluten carbs, and broccoli.

For MSG, I don't know about it ahead of time. If I do, I don't eat the food. For example, went to kbbq, ate some plain meat, rice, and egg, got a headache after leaving. Next time I was there I asked about MSG because it was the most likely trigger to be used. Turns out it was in the steamed egg and the salt and pepper mix. Avoided those and felt fine for multiple visits after.

I think this is a blind way of discovery because I didn't have assumptions about the triggers when I started trying to figure what they were.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#137
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something similar is done to placate “intelligent free thinkers” who think nitrates and nitrites are the devil. If you go into a Whole Foods practically every cured meat is labeled “Uncured! Nitrate free!” If you follow the inevitable asterisk though, you see the the caveat “Except those derived from natural sources, such as celery juice.” facepalm Just... eat less bacon, and don’t kid yourself that it somehow matter…

Nitrates are unhealthy, even if vendors are intentionally misleading about celery.

The weird thing is, many vegetables are full of nitrates but people only seem to care when they are in meat.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#139
I hereby title this post "Ingesting supplemental levels of glutamate — the single most important endogenous neurochemical — invariably does various stuff to the nervous system, the single most complicated system we study. Spending decades debating between black/white positions of 'it's always bad for everyone' and 'it's always fine for everyone' is ridiculous."

I've never met anyone in real life, or had a proper 1-on-1 online with anyone (with basic biology/neuroscience knowledge) who denied MSG's health/biological effects.

It's frickin glutamate. That's it. GABA is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter. Glutamate is the main excitatory neurotransmitter. Ingest various/increasing doses of the former, and you will be relaxed verging on sedating. Ingest increasing doses of the latter and you (and your whole nervous system) will be stimulated verging on seizure-y (for various reasons it wouldn't be possible to orally ingest enough glutamate to actually seize).

It's all a matter of doses. But seriously, grab some size 0 capsules, put 500mg of GABA or Glutamate (sodium glutamate aka MSG being the most readily available) in each, mix 'em up and have a party. You'll easily be able to tell which one you've taken after 15-30 mins. This is basic stuff.

Individual traits (species, morphology, and brain chemistry/epigenetics) all play a part, the same way they do for sensitivity/tolerance to any other ingested food constituent, herb, supplement, or drug. But for Glutamate at least, these factors mostly equate to differences in tolerated doses, because in the end there isn't anybody (or any species that I know of) for which Glutamate doesn't play the vital nervous system role we know it to play.

So, that's basic biology. Supplementing Glutamate/MSG generally isn't needed/wanted/pleasant. But is it so much of a problem in the amounts found in food? That's what the whole debate is about after all.

The answer is there is no answer. It's a nearly meaningless question. It's the kind of meaningless question/debate that comes out of the relationship between regulatory agencies and business/industry, because the former is tasked with the impossible task of making conservative black/white/one-sized-fit-all health decisions for the public, and the latter is tasked with making addictively-tasty things regardless of health impact as long as it's legal. They NEED the answer, and the answer they've come up with is SAFE.

The real answer, like any real answer to any biological/health question, is it's complicated. Or at least variable. It's a matter of how much you ingest until you experience/feel something you don't like. Maybe it's 500mg, maybe it's a gram or two. It doesn't really matter. "Consumers" should simply be able to know in advance the same way they do for salt and sugar content.

Please no one jump on this post for lack of sources. I'm not going to copy/paste 5 decades worth of research on Glutamate in humans/mammals for the sake of winning what is basically a nonsensical political/conspiracy-hunting-mob debate.

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