How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#91

Post by SiVal » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 12:40 PM UTC

jnty wrote: post #67

SiVal wrote: post #62

fivethirtyeight.com: "That MSG causes health problems may have thrived on racially charged biases from the outset." Yeah, sure. Couldn't have just been the usual, nonsensical intellectual fashion of the sophisticates ("ooh, chemicals are so bad!"). No, today's nonsensical intellectual fashion of sophisticates ("oooh, racism explains everything!") has finally figured out what was wrong with yesterday's nonsensical int…

No, a significant part of it (in the UK) has definitely been stereotypes around Chinese food being somehow 'dodgy'. Clearly racism doesn't 'explain everything' and the forces you mention played a part, but you're the only one who brought up that strawman. (You should think carefully about why you're so desperate to disingenuously downplay the effects of racism on modern attitudes.)

[flagged]

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#92

Post by loceng » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 12:41 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #85

IMHO the fact that Asians have been consuming it in huge amounts for over a century, and yet there hasn't been any common health problems linked to it, should be enough of a clue that it's not really harmful... I've found that restaurants in China in general tend to use a lot more MSG and other glutamate products than North America, enough to give me a little bit of a "high". It would not surprise me that someone not…

Presuming all backgrounds of people who have had different evolutionary paths are the same or would react the same biologically to different chemicals doesn't make sense to me. For example, many Asians from my current understanding - and correct me if I'm wrong, can't process Alcohol the same way the rest of us can - which leads a higher percentage of them getting a red face.

I too would get a bit of a "high" - whether it's the same experience that we both have or not, for me it also would cause me ADD/focus problems for many hours afterward and give me a headache.

You're right that some people could become conditioned or accustomed to it if they eat it regularly, however I wonder then what the long-term impact is - and how easy it would be to measure more subtle impact.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#93

Post by detritus » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 12:46 PM UTC

bjl wrote: post #83

waynecochran wrote: post #79

MSG will give me a headache every frickin' time. Guaranteed.

Unless tomatoes, Parmesan cheese, and aged beef also give you headaches every time, then its guaranteed not to be the MSG.

The difference is that those foods are high in glutamate, not the chemically-stabilised for easy human sprinkling 'monosodium glutamate'.

I've long suspected any headaches or perceived ill-effects from MSG consumption are probably just sodium spikes from dishes made with a bit too much msg and salt, perhaps washed down with some not enirely quenching alcoholic beverage.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#94

Post by mlrtime » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 12:52 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #63

afarrell wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve found it's just easier to automatically presume that everyone has dietary restrictions... Could you explain more how you do this in practice? Do you list out all ingredients in a menu? Or do you have a list of standard dietary restrictions that most people have (pork, shellfish, dairy, beef, coconut, peanuts, horseradish, salt, ...) and just remove all of them?

Don't presume, ask; something like "do you have any dietary requirements?" along with a dinner invitation. Covers everything from vegetarianism to highly specific allergies. Also puts the ball in the other person's court to be clear upfront before anything is cooked or purchased.

Nobody will mention MSG in this scenario unless they have a very acute allergy to it.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#95

Post by crazydoggers » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 12:55 PM UTC

psiops wrote: post #77

I have no antipathy towards MSG. I can taste that it tastes good. The thing is really: It messes with my sleep . I don't know how, but sometimes I get a high dose in me and I just cannot get to sleep, like at all. Elevated heart rate, mind racing, all night long. _That_ I do not like. I don't believe it's an evil chemical, it's naturally occurring after all. But yeah, if someone knows a hack to cure the occassional i…

Agree with other reply that tptacek has a good take. One thing to keep in mind is that glutamates play a role as neurotransmitters. It’s possible that if large doses are taken on an empty stomach they may exacerbate some insomnia symptoms.

It’s unclear how much of an effect it has though. Just like tryptophan in large doses can cause drowsiness. However for instance people eating turkey and getting sleepy assume it’s the tryptophan when really it’s just the large quantities of food they just ate, and the tryptophan really has no effect.

So like tptacek says... could be the sodium. But also dont just dismiss the role of glutamate out of hand.

And even if it does cause issues in some people, it’s probably also totally safe based on all the evidence.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#96

Post by noxToken » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 12:58 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #85

IMHO the fact that Asians have been consuming it in huge amounts for over a century, and yet there hasn't been any common health problems linked to it, should be enough of a clue that it's not really harmful... I've found that restaurants in China in general tend to use a lot more MSG and other glutamate products than North America, enough to give me a little bit of a "high". It would not surprise me that someone not…

>IMHO the fact that Asians have been consuming it in huge amounts for over a century, and yet there hasn't been any common health problems linked to it, should be enough of a clue that it's not really harmful...

This isn't really a good argument. Western people use lactose in a variety of ways such as a drink additive (tea), for cooking (cheese, cream-based sauces), and even consuming by the glass (good ol' fashion milk). However, there's a high prevalence of lactose intolerance in Asian countries. There are just some sensitivities, diseases, and reactions that are more prevalent in some ethnicities than others including lactose intolerance, sickle-cell anemia, and Tay-Sachs disease.

For the record, I keep a bottle of MSG in my pantry. I love the stuff, and the only way you'll get me to stop using it is by prying it from my cold, dead hands.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#97

Post by crazydoggers » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

psiops wrote: post #77

I have no antipathy towards MSG. I can taste that it tastes good. The thing is really: It messes with my sleep . I don't know how, but sometimes I get a high dose in me and I just cannot get to sleep, like at all. Elevated heart rate, mind racing, all night long. _That_ I do not like. I don't believe it's an evil chemical, it's naturally occurring after all. But yeah, if someone knows a hack to cure the occassional i…

Wanted to give you a separate reply for an insomnia hack. The best thing I ever did was find someone who did cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Ultimately insomnia is self perpetuating because we start to have anxiety about not being able to sleep, which fires up our fight or flight responses. Our body then starts to automatically associate bedtime with anxiety.

If you can find someone who treats anxiety with CBT they should be able to cure you of the insomnia.

If you can’t, then the best advice I ever got was to simply repeat to yourself, it’s not a big deal. “Maybe I’ll stay awake all night. Who cares. It won’t kill me. Even laying with my eyes closed is recuperative.” Basically don’t fight the insomnia or anxiety it produces. If you can just stop caring about it, eventually your nervous system will catch up.

Also make sure you don’t have sleep apnea... that can also cause anxiety because you’re choking on a nightly basis.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#98

Post by afarrell » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #63

afarrell wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve found it's just easier to automatically presume that everyone has dietary restrictions... Could you explain more how you do this in practice? Do you list out all ingredients in a menu? Or do you have a list of standard dietary restrictions that most people have (pork, shellfish, dairy, beef, coconut, peanuts, horseradish, salt, ...) and just remove all of them?

Don't presume, ask; something like "do you have any dietary requirements?" along with a dinner invitation. Covers everything from vegetarianism to highly specific allergies. Also puts the ball in the other person's court to be clear upfront before anything is cooked or purchased.

That is what I do. I’m curious what serf does.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#99

Post by glup » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:09 PM UTC

I inferred it was probably basically fine when my Swiss relatives served a (relatively fancy, celebratory) dinner and provided it in a labeled shaker alongside salt and pepper.

Re: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

#100

Post by gatherhunterer » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:13 PM UTC

UIZealot wrote: post #86

MSG is most likely safe to eat, judging by the copious amount poured into each and every dish ever, in each and every Chinese restaurant that I've been to. It tasted great when I was only eating in restaurants once in a while. I soon got pretty sick of it after eating out a few times a week for a few months. There's probably a judicious amount that could enliven a dish without overpowering the food. Alas, the amounts…

From the article:

> As my colleague Christie Aschwanden has explained, once we reach false conclusions, our brains prevent us from accepting new information that can correct those mistaken assumptions.