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Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

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Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#241

Post by fiblye »

jancsika wrote: post #230
zed88 wrote: post #135

I think censorship is not going to fix the issue, people have the right to see and face evil if they so wish to and have a strong heart. I am from NZ and a muslim and have watched the video myself an hour after the incident, I know people personally affected by this and I think we all need to come together as human beings and understand that there are some evil ideas and people everywhere around the world. And that's…

> I think censorship is not going to fix the issue, people have the right to see and face evil if they so wish to and have a strong heart. I'd like to pentest that. Here are some real and hypothetical cases that should be easier to defend: * thousands of people access scientific journal articles through scihub * thousands of people copy books from an illegal mirror of the corpus of digital books from UC libraries tha…

It’s strange to ask that on HN of all places, because it’s known that loads of people here are for all 3 points. Plenty of people here are against copyright and patents entirely, even.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#242

Post by sadris »

fzeroracer wrote: post #120
x38iq84n wrote: post #2

The shooting in Christchurch is a tragedy that should not have happened. That said, this massive wave of censorship across MSM, NZ ISPs, regardless of the motivation, is very disturbing. It will be inevitably used to suppress citizens' freedoms, it will cause more tension in society that will escalate into more tragical incidents. Also, the video may serve someone to study modus operandi of such an attacker to increa…

It is extremely telling to me that of all the comments here, most of them I've seen express concern not with the fact that 50 people were murdered by white supremacists (a number that seems to be rising year over year) but rather attempting to divert the topic into one about censorship and free speech. I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists because so far, the market p…

He was a nationalist, not supremacist.

> I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists because so far, the market place of ideas has not been successful.

The moderate nationalists like Taylor have been purged from common media. He is equated to the exact same as the shooter.

After a Muslim terrorist attack we all call for moderate Muslims to help engage in dialog to talk radical ones out of violence. But in the case of nationalist terrorism that is no where to be seen.

If you ever listen to interviews of former nationalists, dialog is what got the to change their position. Not once did no platforming or throwing bottles at them work. There was an interview with one on CNN last week about this.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#243

Post by huffmsa »

huffmsa wrote: post #225
arrrg wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video of the NZ attacks is not documentation. It is purposefully created propaganda by the terrorist himself. It’s not neutral. (Not that even something set up explicitly as merely documentation could ever be completely neutral itself, I’m just saying that this footage is extremely far removed from having any claim to neutrality.) It does document the attacks, that much is true. And in that regard it is the same…

But we still make Nazi filmed footage from their concentration camps available. There's no other way to truly understand what happened unless you see it. Regardless of who filmed it.

And I don't think it should be forced in people's faces either. But it should be available for those who want to view it.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#244

Post by sadris »

redisman wrote: post #232
tenpies wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> merely allowing far-right dialogue online is essentially responsible for ease of radicalization The shooter was self described as an eco-fascist and claimed his motivation were two events covered widely by the mainstream media. He was very clearly "of the internet", but are you convinced that deleting "far-right dialogue" would have stopped him? What about the current state of journalism and politics, which was als…

I wish we would look more at what he did. Killed 50 muslims. Not what his rambling troll "manifesto" said.

If you want it to not happen again, then you should look at the why, not the what.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#245

Post by bitxbit »

gruez wrote: post #216
Pharmakon wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A moral standing grounded in mutual respect we’d hope to receive ourselves? Or if you really want to be legalistic, their next of kin have the standing.

>their next of kin have the standing. That's not what standing means[1]. At least in the US, if the video was recorded legally[2], there's nothing you can really to do prevent publication of it. The laws are stricter if you're using it for commercial purposes, but it's not the case here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_(law) [2] You could argue that the shooting was illegal, so therefore the recording was…

Well if we want to go down that road, the event was in a private place of worship and not a public landmark. And from my understanding (I don’t know since I refuse to and didn’t watch the video) there were minors in the footage. Last but not least, Facebook specifically sells ads on their pages. So, yeah, people cannot post and disseminate these videos even if the event occurred here in the US. In addition, the footages being disseminated are technically illegal copies.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#246

Post by [deleted] »

kumarm wrote: post #240
zed88 wrote: post #135

I think censorship is not going to fix the issue, people have the right to see and face evil if they so wish to and have a strong heart. I am from NZ and a muslim and have watched the video myself an hour after the incident, I know people personally affected by this and I think we all need to come together as human beings and understand that there are some evil ideas and people everywhere around the world. And that's…

The video is being distributed in whatsapp groups in countries where education level of people is pretty low. This is going to be propaganda for more violence in the world. World is complicated and no censorship doesn't work when a society has 50% that never went to school.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#247

Post by fiblye »

warning26 wrote: post #9

I know people on here will disagree with this, but I think many of these events indicate that online censorship is needed. I believe it's becoming increasingly clear that merely allowing far-right dialogue online is essentially responsible for ease of radicalization, and that proactive censorship would be the best approach to forestall this.

You realize their big argument is that they’re speaking “truth” and are thus being censored, right? When little bits of what they say slip through the cracks and people know that it’s supposed to be censored, you realize you’re validating their statements right? Make people know they’re right in one aspect, and people will think they’re right in the other aspects as well. Give yourself a legal ability to censor them, and the day they seize power (and don’t try to pretend the people you like will be in power forever, because they won’t), they will use it against you.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#248

Post by TheTruth1234 »

gruez wrote: post #233
TheTruth1234 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to ask me that ... I congratulate you on your restrained use of social media.

Are you saying that the video was being posted to social media as "shock videos" (ie. the viewer did not know that it was violent before watching it)? If so, why is censorship needed, rather than a NSFW/NSFL label?

I'm saying the video was readily available as "news".

I don't care how it's dealt with, but I prefer it not to be a part of my regular online diet.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#249

Post by jimjimjim »

huffmsa wrote: post #231
jimjimjim wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole god damn thing was his propaganda! Why did he film it? why publish a rant? why write things on his guns? to try to push his shitville excuse of a view. To embolden other shitists. Do sow fear and anger into the non-shit.

Sure, it's propaganda, but you have to understand your enemy to defeat them. I'm not interested in this video or the man's opinions. But I strongly believe that the footage should be available so people can see just how horrifying it was. If you want people to take terrorism seriously, they need to really really understand how terrifying it is. Names and numbers don't do that. Watching another human go from walking a…

what?! I was responding to your post saying it wasn't propaganda!

explain yourself!

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#250

Post by caf »

huffmsa wrote: post #231
jimjimjim wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole god damn thing was his propaganda! Why did he film it? why publish a rant? why write things on his guns? to try to push his shitville excuse of a view. To embolden other shitists. Do sow fear and anger into the non-shit.

Sure, it's propaganda, but you have to understand your enemy to defeat them. I'm not interested in this video or the man's opinions. But I strongly believe that the footage should be available so people can see just how horrifying it was. If you want people to take terrorism seriously, they need to really really understand how terrifying it is. Names and numbers don't do that. Watching another human go from walking a…

Frankly if one can't empathise with the horror of a roomful of people being massacred with a rifle purely on plain language description of the event, and instead need the full motion video, in my view such a person is perilously close to lacking any human empathy at all.
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