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Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

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Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#81

Post by GordonS »

forgotmypw3 wrote: post #15

In addition to all the other arguments here (more chewing for bigger jaw development), I have another theory about tooth decay. I think that pre-civilization humans did not eat much sweets past adolescence. This is because, as soon as a minor cavity starts developing, it hurts like hell to put anything sweet in your mouth. Sweet stuff was for children and adolescents, then we just stopped eating it.

> I think that pre-civilization humans did not eat much sweets past adolescence

Pre-civilisation humans wouldn't have had "sweets" as we know them. They would have occasionally had unrefined sugars through honey or palm sugar, and at certain times of the year had fruits (which most likely wouldn't even have been as sweet as they are now)

Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#82

Post by chronogram »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #75
chronogram wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a parent have the ability to say that over some teen's body..? It's horrible to me to read that people would just say that.

Having had wisdom teeth removed, a couple root canals and several cavaties, and having seen the discomfort and problems my wife and daughter’s impacted teeth have had on them, you could do much worse than just ripping them all out and replacing them with high quality manufactured teeth. Human teeth are about as reliable as the gal bladder. Obviously it would be preferable to maintain your essence but (post)agrarian d…

Yes I know they're not the most reliable teeth in the world, that's not what I'm talking about. A parent saying "take out all the teeth, they're gonna fail eventually anyway"? Am I weird for thinking that sounds horrible? I can't even try to make analogies for it because whatever I think of is not as bad as that quote.

Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#83

Post by GordonS »

chrisco255 wrote: post #9
rutabega wrote: post #5

Excess protein intake (vast majority of diets, not exclusive to keto or paleo, etc.)

The article claimed that modern diets don't put enough strain on the jaw in childhood, so the jaw doesn't grow as much and there's more crowding. Has nothing to do with protein intake.

I suppose meat, as a protein source, is typically l chewier that fruit or veg.

Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#84

Post by ryanmarsh »

drcode wrote: post #26
keithwhor wrote: post #22

Isn't an alternative explanation just that well-aligned jaws and spaced teeth are selected for via both (A) natural selection, esp. in predator species (well-aligned jaw = more efficient prey capture, chewing, defense) and (B) sexual selection as a holdover result of the first? As in, if ancestors relied heavily on their jaws and, behaviourally, a selective preference for well-aligned jaws and teeth helped favor offs…

I think a stronger argument, along similar lines, would be to observe that the human skull underwent pretty drastic architectural changes in the last 200K years because of the rapid growth in size of the brain cavity. And, since the importance of teeth fell behind the importance of intelligence, not enough selective pressure existed to "fix" the teeth given the other radical skull changes.

In addition, let’s not forget the invention of cooked food. Soft cooked food no longer requires a massive jaw with jaw muscle attached to the top of the skull. Furthermore, the higher sugar content of the (post)agrarian diet creates a healthy environment for bacteria.

“Catching Fire: How Cooking Made us Human” has a lot to say on this subject.

Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#85

Post by Empact »

keithwhor wrote: post #44
QuackingJimbo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to link to a good methodology? I've been intrigued by this but there's a lot of conflicting information out there

I would go and schedule an interview with an orthodontist instead of relying on the internet, here. "Orthrotropics" appears to be a registered trademark, which is, at the very least, a yellow flag. A cursory search on details has broken this down to extractive / surgical vs. non-extractive / non-surgical orthodontics, the latter of which has proven to be effective before the palate and growth plates have fused -- in…

Orthodontists are incentivized against embracing orthotropics by their current knowledge and business model. They prefer interventions they can charge for (braces, slenderizing) over practices which can be adopted without intervention. This may be why the field emerged from dentists rather than orthodontists.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it” — Upton Sinclair

Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#86

Post by Pharmakon »

GordonS wrote: post #83
chrisco255 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article claimed that modern diets don't put enough strain on the jaw in childhood, so the jaw doesn't grow as much and there's more crowding. Has nothing to do with protein intake.

I suppose meat, as a protein source, is typically l chewier that fruit or veg.

Meat is easy on teeth, what traditionally wore down teeth in human history were rough unprocessed grains, tough vegetable fibers, nuts, and the use of teeth as tools (working plant fibers for example). Of course the inclusion of sand or grit in food also contributed. People also chewed a lot of bone in history, either whole or as with Aboriginal Australians, as a mash of whole animals.

https://www.nature.com/articles/sj.bdj.2014.353.pdf?origin=p...

Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#87

Post by Empact »

QuackingJimbo wrote: post #39
Empact wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 34 and have personally experienced significant changes in my face thanks to orthotropic pressure / mewing, and have the photos to prove it. In addition, my bite has been stable without a retainer, whereas in the past I've had braces twice. My background is I had an undiagnosed mild tongue tie that I discovered a bit over a year ago. I previously couldn’t press my tongue against the roof of my mouth, which led to…

Care to link to a good methodology? I've been intrigued by this but there's a lot of conflicting information out there

I can tell you what I’ve done:

* chewing hard gum, falim/mastic, for jaw muscle development

* exerting pressure on the back of my hard palate with the tip of my tongue

* focusing on adjusting my breathing and swallowing patterns to press on the palate rather than elsewhere

Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#88

Post by aaaaaaaaaaab »

sashavingardt2 wrote: post #3

You ever wonder when they show a tribe from G-d knows where that had barely any contact with our civilization, how come they've got perfect white teeth and they've got them all? Nothing crooked, nothing missing.

No refined carbs → No cavities

Tough food, lot’s of chewing → No crooked teeth

Re: Why Are Human Teeth So Messed Up? (2017)

#89

Post by taysic »

chronogram wrote: post #82
ryanmarsh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had wisdom teeth removed, a couple root canals and several cavaties, and having seen the discomfort and problems my wife and daughter’s impacted teeth have had on them, you could do much worse than just ripping them all out and replacing them with high quality manufactured teeth. Human teeth are about as reliable as the gal bladder. Obviously it would be preferable to maintain your essence but (post)agrarian d…

Yes I know they're not the most reliable teeth in the world, that's not what I'm talking about. A parent saying "take out all the teeth, they're gonna fail eventually anyway"? Am I weird for thinking that sounds horrible? I can't even try to make analogies for it because whatever I think of is not as bad as that quote.

I think its horrible - its far too early to make that decision for your child. I think its something a person should make for themselves. "Expensive dental work" could mean only a few teeth impacted - the rest may be perfectly great. I see no reason to take them out.
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