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Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

reuters.com

221–230 of 242 posts

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#221
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the ratio of true to false positives is at greater than 5:1, it's hard to imagine the false positives causing net harm.

Where do you get 5:1? Maybe I don't know enough about heart disease but the numbers in the article seem pretty hard to parse. It sounds like many of those who got a bleep from their iWatch subsequently had some effect detected by standard tests. But that isn't the right number. We don't necessarily know that we should treat everyone who fails standard tests. Especially if our previous knowledge about such tests was l…

> Where do you get 5:1?

At least 84% of the positives were correct.

> It sounds like many of those who got a bleep from their iWatch subsequently had some effect detected by standard tests. But that isn't the right number. We don't necessarily know that we should treat everyone who fails standard tests. Especially if our previous knowledge about such tests was limited to patients where there was other evidence.

I agree, but there is a very important distinction to make here. When we don't know what to do with the results of a test, it can be wasteful and negative even when the results of the test are completely accurate.

That is the much bigger risk here. That the true positives are a waste of time and net negative all by themselves. They have the real potential for issues here, not the false positives.

Because the true positives outweigh the false positives by so much, for there to be net harm because of false positives, each one would have to do more damage than the effect of five true positives. I doubt that's the case. I'm pretty confident that either the test is an overall good thing, or the test is a bad thing because of true positives.

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#222

I saw a few posts on Reddit about how the Apple Watch basically saved people's life: https://www.reddit.com/r/AppleWatch/comments/a40qm5/heading_... https://www.reddit.com/r/AppleWatch/comments/9zrdq5/how_an_a... I'm sure there is a lot more. (Also all the people losing weight)

Thank you for posting these! This inspired me to take the time to run an ECG, and enable auto-ECGs with notifications.

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#223
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you get 5:1? Maybe I don't know enough about heart disease but the numbers in the article seem pretty hard to parse. It sounds like many of those who got a bleep from their iWatch subsequently had some effect detected by standard tests. But that isn't the right number. We don't necessarily know that we should treat everyone who fails standard tests. Especially if our previous knowledge about such tests was l…

> Where do you get 5:1? At least 84% of the positives were correct. > It sounds like many of those who got a bleep from their iWatch subsequently had some effect detected by standard tests. But that isn't the right number. We don't necessarily know that we should treat everyone who fails standard tests. Especially if our previous knowledge about such tests was limited to patients where there was other evidence. I agr…

OK, I think we're fully in agreement here, modulo terminology. You are using "true positive" to mean that the watch correctly predicted a positive score on the medical test. And these are the people who may be treated, some of them unnecessarily.

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#224
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do you get 5:1? At least 84% of the positives were correct. > It sounds like many of those who got a bleep from their iWatch subsequently had some effect detected by standard tests. But that isn't the right number. We don't necessarily know that we should treat everyone who fails standard tests. Especially if our previous knowledge about such tests was limited to patients where there was other evidence. I agr…

OK, I think we're fully in agreement here, modulo terminology. You are using "true positive" to mean that the watch correctly predicted a positive score on the medical test. And these are the people who may be treated, some of them unnecessarily.

Not just that it matches the medical test, I'm saying that the watch is objectively correct in detecting an irregular heartbeat. The problem is that we don't know what to do with that data, which is different from the test making a mistake.

There are other situations where it actually is a huge problem that the test makes a mistake some percent of the time. It's important to distinguish the two problems.

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got it—I renewed it 40 minutes ago. Bear with us as we get the renewal processed and DNS propagated.

Still not resolving in a lot of places, also making your app not work (I’m in the UK).

It works here in Singapore with Ckoudflare DNS resolcer

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One-off comment, but the new band has really improved HR detection for me. I went from the rubber strap (with holes every centimeter or so) to the adjustable velcro strap and it's night & day. It went from being 100% useless on runs to _actually_ keeping accurate detection the entire run.

What do you mean by the velcro strap? Is it the "Sport loop" ( https://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/4982/as-images.apple... )?

Exactly that.

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't yet found the rings and other features to be nearly as motivating as when all of my friends had Fitbits and we were connected through their service. That was one thing that kept me from switching faster, I didn't want to give up the Fitbit social network.

FWIW, Apple Watch has a similar thing; it just has fewer users on in the network…

I had not seen that. Thanks for the tip!

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#228
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, FitBit Charge HR 2 was useless. Same issue with you where it would 40 bpm off or provide no reading at all. Apple Watch 3 was pretty bad too. It would give inaccurate often enough that I couldn't use it for training in a heart rate zone. For example, I'd be walking for warm up and it would give a reading of 160 at the beginning, then back down to 110, then 10 mins later back to 160. I can't imagine…

this is the thing I wonder if the mechanism by which wrist-based HR monitors work (seems to be optical) is just not effective for some people, for some physiological reason.

An electrical engineering friend who did some hardware development work on these a few years back suggested that noise in the observations was a fairly significant challenge. Seems the devices use a lot of data smoothing to counteract this.

Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#229
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Re: Apple Watch detects irregular heart beat in large U.S. study

#230
post #108
post #101

this is kind of a trivial question but is the apple watch HR monitor known to be better than that of FitBit? I got a Charge 3 for Christmas and I barely even wear it anymore, as it would say things like "95 bpm" when I'm working out and I'm clearly at around 135 bpm. you can say things like "oh wear it higher / lower / tighter" whatever but if it's that prone to being 40 bpm off the mark, what use is it.

My cardiologist has looked at it when I'm hooked up to a full 12-lead EKG and has noted how pretty solid the measurements seem to be. If it's on a slightly looser setting, sometimes it initially catches only half the tempo for a second, but then locks in. This is on an Apple Watch 4.

my Apple Watch series 2 is quite accurate. I've hooked myself up to a cardiac monitor (I'm a paramedic, and sometimes do this as an equipment test anyway) and it was spot on.
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