Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

stanforddaily.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 238 posts

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#101

Post by johncolanduoni »

mjburgess wrote: post #83
tensor wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering almost all the world changing knowledge our society has has come from academia, I really can't agree with you. Even in CS, almost all of what I learned in grad school was directly applicable to real problems. The issue is that the bar in industry is so low that we're more worried about getting people to do even basic things than getting them to use state of the art technology.

Yes, but the results of "academia" are an exercise in the net effects of collective intelligence. Many a bee sacrifices its life without making a difference. Rarer in business is one individuals efforts 100% wasted with such regularity. Academia is a path finding strategy through a forest where most paths are dead-ends. On a case-by-case, individual basis, it doesn't look so good.

In startups, a set of individuals efforts is 100% wasted with extreme regularity. They are also a path finding strategy through a forest where most paths are dead-ends, but you get paid very well until you hit that dead-end and move to the next path.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#102

Post by expertentipp »

blablabla123 wrote: post #60
omk wrote: post #17

After 5 years of work, I finally decided to take the jump and live the dream of earning a Masters degree from a prestitious university in The Netherlands. Being a non-EU citizen I had shell euro 15000/year but it still seemed cheaper than US counterparts. Couple months into the semester I realized the pressure kicking in my program. The planned 40 hour load required atleast 80 hours of work. I could sense stress and…

> The only preparation I was getting was the ability to absorb stress; and I was sucking at it. That's interesting, in my second semester (Physics) a professor said to us in his introduction lecture that one of the biggest things you learn during studies is stress resilience. There's definitely a lot of truth to that. Although back at the time I didn't realize it but looking back it was the case. During studies and a…

I think there is a serious problem of people coming out of academia and transferring the workplace into the only type of environment they know and described above. Obediendce to the credentials and high tollerance to bullshit, supervisors forcing others to make the supervisors’ mistakes. The workplace becomes a circus of absurd dead end ideas, probing the patience of anyone with any clue on how business- or customer- facing production software or service should work.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#103

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

expertentipp wrote: post #71
JanSt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Berlin, which is totally different than pretty much every other place in Germany :-) FREE healthcare means that everyone is covered, even if unemployed or working for low wages. The more you earn, the more you pay (capped at ~400€). Your family is insured for no extra payment. You obviously don‘t fit the system because you believe you should pay less (single, young, healthy) but that‘s exactly not what it…

> poor, old, unhealthy people, those who suffer in life are protected > Cancer won‘t bankrupt your family, you won‘t end on the street. > That‘s free healthcare - dignity! I guess the middle age male homeless sitting and sleeping all over the cities and transport venues damage your vision slightly. Don't even try the narrative "it's eastern Europeans, it's their own fault".

The "eastern Europeans" rant was a cheap shot. Germany's and most other wealthy EU countries' problems are mostly self inflicted, but it's always easier to blame "those Eastern Europeans" because it's politically corect.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#104

Post by johncolanduoni »

mjburgess wrote: post #64
_hardwaregeek wrote: post #61

Y'know, occasionally I see off hand remarks from tech or start-up people dissing academia, not understanding that academia is probably one of the hardest career paths in the world (and thus surprisingly similar to start-ups). You can't take a break (publish or perish), you need a lot of qualifications to even dream about getting tenure (top 5 grad schools or bust), and you're competing against ridiculously smart and…

I suspect its the content of the game rather than its difficulty. That is, academia is at-best dimly related to practical results that have a direct effect on people's lives.

Academia called, they want their quantum theory back. Particularly the parts that enabled transistor-based electronics.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#105

Post by omk »

blablabla123 wrote: post #60
omk wrote: post #17

After 5 years of work, I finally decided to take the jump and live the dream of earning a Masters degree from a prestitious university in The Netherlands. Being a non-EU citizen I had shell euro 15000/year but it still seemed cheaper than US counterparts. Couple months into the semester I realized the pressure kicking in my program. The planned 40 hour load required atleast 80 hours of work. I could sense stress and…

> The only preparation I was getting was the ability to absorb stress; and I was sucking at it. That's interesting, in my second semester (Physics) a professor said to us in his introduction lecture that one of the biggest things you learn during studies is stress resilience. There's definitely a lot of truth to that. Although back at the time I didn't realize it but looking back it was the case. During studies and a…

I was very much considered increasing the duration of my course to 3 years. But that would mean I would spend euro 15k more. It would have been ideal to price the courses based on number of credits you take, but that sadly wasn't the case.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#107

Post by usgroup »

blablabla123 wrote: post #60
omk wrote: post #17

After 5 years of work, I finally decided to take the jump and live the dream of earning a Masters degree from a prestitious university in The Netherlands. Being a non-EU citizen I had shell euro 15000/year but it still seemed cheaper than US counterparts. Couple months into the semester I realized the pressure kicking in my program. The planned 40 hour load required atleast 80 hours of work. I could sense stress and…

> The only preparation I was getting was the ability to absorb stress; and I was sucking at it. That's interesting, in my second semester (Physics) a professor said to us in his introduction lecture that one of the biggest things you learn during studies is stress resilience. There's definitely a lot of truth to that. Although back at the time I didn't realize it but looking back it was the case. During studies and a…

Tbh I see that sort of academia as tantamount to abuse or exploitation.

A close friend was a nueroscientist. I got to watch her PI push her into 70 hour weeks and then guilt trip her for not doing more. I watched her PI extend her PhD for a year so she could contribute more to other projects, and then I watched them selectively drop data (and IMO make up results) so that they could publish on schedule.

Some parts of academia are so ludicrously bureaucratic that folks literally focus on box ticking for years at a time. That’s bound to happen because beaurocracy forces a path of least resistance that is essentially box ticking.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#108

Post by expertentipp »

Aeolun wrote: post #100
expertentipp wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fact is, most people who are legally in Germany for >3 months are legible for Hartz 4: a free apartment, free heating and a few hundred Euro. And free healthcare. Free apartment for a foreigner living in the country only over 3 months?! Dude, people on employment contract with over average income, staying in the country for years are having difficulties to find anything for rent in any major city, buying is out of…

> in any major city Well, there’s your problem. If you are unemployed, there is hardly any reason to stay in a big city.

Hartz4 while living in the countryside? That’s pretty much synonymous of dead end hopeless downward spiral.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#109

Post by ookdatnog »

mjburgess wrote: post #83
tensor wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering almost all the world changing knowledge our society has has come from academia, I really can't agree with you. Even in CS, almost all of what I learned in grad school was directly applicable to real problems. The issue is that the bar in industry is so low that we're more worried about getting people to do even basic things than getting them to use state of the art technology.

Yes, but the results of "academia" are an exercise in the net effects of collective intelligence. Many a bee sacrifices its life without making a difference. Rarer in business is one individuals efforts 100% wasted with such regularity. Academia is a path finding strategy through a forest where most paths are dead-ends. On a case-by-case, individual basis, it doesn't look so good.

>Academia is a path finding strategy through a forest where most paths are dead-ends.

That's just describing hard problem solving in general, it's not specific to academia at all.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#110

Post by xfitm3 »

expertentipp wrote: post #102
blablabla123 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only preparation I was getting was the ability to absorb stress; and I was sucking at it. That's interesting, in my second semester (Physics) a professor said to us in his introduction lecture that one of the biggest things you learn during studies is stress resilience. There's definitely a lot of truth to that. Although back at the time I didn't realize it but looking back it was the case. During studies and a…

I think there is a serious problem of people coming out of academia and transferring the workplace into the only type of environment they know and described above. Obediendce to the credentials and high tollerance to bullshit, supervisors forcing others to make the supervisors’ mistakes. The workplace becomes a circus of absurd dead end ideas, probing the patience of anyone with any clue on how business- or customer-…

Isn't that by design?
Post reply on HN