Y'know, occasionally I see off hand remarks from tech or start-up people dissing academia, not understanding that academia is probably one of the hardest career paths in the world (and thus surprisingly similar to start-ups). You can't take a break (publish or perish), you need a lot of qualifications to even dream about getting tenure (top 5 grad schools or bust), and you're competing against ridiculously smart and pathologically obsessive people.
‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
61–70 of 238 posts
Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. But when you are talking about Stanford you are really talking about the best of the best. Their performance curves don't match the rest of the population to start with. For example, I am just watching highlights of the Indian Wells Tennis Tourney thats going on, and a 38 year old Roger Federer has managed to get to the finals. And in every interview with the rest of the competition, they all say he is just…
Especially for creative work, work time doesn't correlate with output. Being a top physicist/mathematician/whatever is pretty unrelated with "working harder." It's related with having a somehow "better" connected brain. You can't work your way into being very smart.
I completely disagree with this. It's obvious that the top contributors to those realms are incredibly talented - Einstein, Newton, Euler, whatever. At the same time, they all put in an absurd amount of work, and their most well known contributions typically come from periods of almost exclusive focus on their chosen problem - Newton stuck inside working on gravitation because of a plague outbreak, Einstein's obsessive work in the years leading up to his Annus Mirabilis papers.
Innate talent may be a prerequisite for creative work, but it's seldom sufficient without putting the time and effort in.
Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I recognize that this is anecdata but I worked together remotely with a engineers from the Shenzhen area a number of times, and they would have a 2 hour lunch plus a 2 hour afternoon nap (under their desks, on a couch, anywhere really) every day. Working from 9 to 9 sounds less heavy (and more fun!) that way. Maybe I met some lucky few, but if my impression of Chinese tech working culture is accurate, it's less insan…
Ain't that the inconvenient truth? Countries with long working hours aren't filled with people with superhuman stamina and concentration. They just fill up the additional hours with a bunch of other stuff; in the western hemisphere, it's acting busy and spending hours on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. I'd rather work in a place with "work-life balance" (whatever the hell that is these days, 8-6?) but such places a…
These places are findable, but you have to take a pay hit usually. I'm working as a software dev for a nonprofit right now in the US -- we have 35-40 hour weeks, 25 days of vacation, 1 telecommute day per week, and the nicest coworkers I've ever met. Everyone is sunny and relaxed because the culture breeds happiness. It's downright intoxicating to work there.
But I'm making a solid $20k less than I could make elsewhere at my current role. To me though, it's worth it for a working environment where I wake up with a smile at the thought of driving in, rather than waking up with a sick pit of dread in my gut every day.
Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#64Y'know, occasionally I see off hand remarks from tech or start-up people dissing academia, not understanding that academia is probably one of the hardest career paths in the world (and thus surprisingly similar to start-ups). You can't take a break (publish or perish), you need a lot of qualifications to even dream about getting tenure (top 5 grad schools or bust), and you're competing against ridiculously smart and…
I suspect its the content of the game rather than its difficulty.
That is, academia is at-best dimly related to practical results that have a direct effect on people's lives.
Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#65Meanwhile in China we have 9-9-6. The US needs to wake up to whether it wants to stay in the game.
Not a single thing about China is attractive to me. Not how you work, not your politics, not your view of what's important in life. We have nothing to learn from you and I hope we don't become more similar than we are now.
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Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a single thing about China is attractive to me. Not how you work, not your politics, not your view of what's important in life. We have nothing to learn from you and I hope we don't become more similar than we are now.
If there's one thing living and working in Europe (Germany) has taught me is that all countries are more or less the same. It's just how well the culture manages to mask the "unattractive" traits we love to criticize in places like China (or America, as of late), and the PR/propaganda campaign they run to convince everyone they're the best place on the planet. China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. T…
> Germany [...] has employment laws that are actually enforced, but only if you go to court (but contrary to popular belief, don't make you "unfireable", just allow the employee to get a few thousand EUR as compensation for when the employer does try their hand at something exploitative - and they will, hoping you're not aware of your rights)
Thousand time yes! In case one is not fluent in German they behave like shark smelling the blood. Overtime, underdog tasks, imposing ridiculous decisions, defaming reprimands (Abmahnung). The labour code is on one's side, but good luck finding a lawyer who'll engage in an individual case.
> All while lowballing immigrants in terms of salary and imposing an industrial-grade glass ceiling for any non-German who tries to work here. E.g. they will boast how their company of 300 has over 80 nationalities and work exclusively in English (because 90% of clients are American/British) but oddly enough, everyone in mid-upper/upper management is white and German.
Forget about English speaking environment in Germany - it's a trap, especially when managers and directors are German. Anytime the shit hits the fan, the communication fallbacks into local language because that's the language of the labour code. They will try to screw one over while wrongfully accusing of various things and breaching rules which previously "didn't matter".
Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. But when you are talking about Stanford you are really talking about the best of the best. Their performance curves don't match the rest of the population to start with. For example, I am just watching highlights of the Indian Wells Tennis Tourney thats going on, and a 38 year old Roger Federer has managed to get to the finals. And in every interview with the rest of the competition, they all say he is just…
Especially for creative work, work time doesn't correlate with output. Being a top physicist/mathematician/whatever is pretty unrelated with "working harder." It's related with having a somehow "better" connected brain. You can't work your way into being very smart.
Getting a better connected brain is often the outcome of just working harder at a problem.
You'd be surprised at how much creative progress is due to steady effort rather than some brilliant epiphany. Just because its intellectual work doesn't mean it can’t be solved by grinding it out.
Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am relieved you didn't speak of totalitarianism, which you have ruined your whole argument.
The macro view of things (e.g. policies) doesn't bother me too much anymore. As mentioned, all countries are more or less shit (in their own unique way). It's what one experiences on the ground level in daily life that matters. Is Germany that much better when you can get fined if you flip someone off (say an idiotic driver on the road) and there are contracts (where you're usually locked in for 2 years with autorene…
You forgot about predatory no opt-out "contracts" running indefinitely, which don't cancel by default on moving out of the country (public health insurance, public media fee).
Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> TLDR China is about as attractive as any other country on the planet, they just have subpar image management and PR at the moment Cool, why haven't you moved there?
I moved to Germany in the dark days when I was gullible to believe the propaganda across the internet that "Germany = The 1st world that's better than America" only to arrive and discover 99% of the stuff you see in comments sections about how "Germany is superior to [US/China/UK]" is bullshit. That said, I made my bed and I'll lie in it for a while. Already looking at options for where to move, but I wasn't about to…
I agree with some of your assessments about Germany but not to the point that I would consider "fake" or "propaganda".
Especially the "public transport is slow/expensive" part. It seems it's one of the best (in the western hemisphere at least) and that even compared with NYC/Montreal/Toronto.
(But of course YMMV)
Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a single thing about China is attractive to me. Not how you work, not your politics, not your view of what's important in life. We have nothing to learn from you and I hope we don't become more similar than we are now.
If there's one thing living and working in Europe (Germany) has taught me is that all countries are more or less the same. It's just how well the culture manages to mask the "unattractive" traits we love to criticize in places like China (or America, as of late), and the PR/propaganda campaign they run to convince everyone they're the best place on the planet. China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. T…
Sounds like Berlin, which is totally different than pretty much every other place in Germany :-)
FREE healthcare means that everyone is covered, even if unemployed or working for low wages. The more you earn, the more you pay (capped at ~400€). Your family is insured for no extra payment. You obviously don‘t fit the system because you believe you should pay less (single, young, healthy) but that‘s exactly not what it is. Poor, old, unhealthy people, those who suffer in life are protected. Cancer won‘t bankrupt your family, you won‘t end on the street. That‘s free healthcare - dignity! Not paying little no nothing if you‘re young and healthy.