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As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

nytimes.com

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Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#91

Post by andrewstuart »

blablablabla991 wrote: post #76
andrewstuart wrote: post #2

The packaging industry is going to fight tooth and nail so it can continue to spew out single use plastics for every single sales transaction that occurs. There's big money involved. Imagine the costs to the packaging industry if it was no longer allowed to create infinite garbage. I do find it strange that there seems to be zero noticeable social pressure on bottled drink companies to stop using single use plastic b…

I don't get the logic behind this? How can the packaging industry force companies to order superfluous packaging? And if it isn't superfluous, getting rid of it might be a net negative?

>>> How can the packaging industry force companies to order superfluous packaging?

By strongly opposing any initiative to implement returnable, multi use packaging, coming up with a bunch of plausible reasons why it doesn't work - maybe it's unhygienic, maybe things can't be washed etc etc

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#92

Post by blattimwind »

maxxxxx wrote: post #37
Semaphor wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany, almost every store takes almost every bottle.

Is there a law or is it voluntary? I don't remember.

When you sell something with a deposit on it you have to accept returns of stuff with deposit on it.

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#93

Post by blattimwind »

rland wrote: post #80
abainbridge wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broadly speaking, I expect the answer is that plastic better prolongs shelf life and leads to less food waste. And plastic is cheaper.

I wonder what's worse, food waste or plastic waste. Food waste: water pollution, pesticides, destruction of biodiversity Plastic waste: fossil fuel consumption, plastic pollution into ecosystems My first thought is that I'd prefer food waste, because the image of "albatross/sea turtle choking on plastic junk" comes to mind. But then again, farming is pretty destructive and invasive too.

Making food requires huge amounts of energy. Pretty sure food waste is way worse, especially since there actually isn't that much plastic in food packaging per unit of food. For example, some ready-cut cheese, say 100 g, might come in a resealable plastic packaging; but that packaging maybe weighs a couple grams at most.

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#94

Post by Waterluvian »

nraynaud wrote: post #20
coldtea wrote: post #16

Recycling was always a lipstick on a pig. Inefficient, subsidized, hypocrisy. Wanna help the environment? Reduce consumption overall.

very specifically: don't take the plane, don't got to work with your car, and live in high density housing.

I was wondering how much I save by working from home. We have a single vehicle, an SUV. I fill it once every 6-7 weeks because we drive so little. It's actually quite amazing how much all the savings compound simply by working from home.

I think that getting all these older managers on board with working from home as much as you can may be a colossal savings on all fronts.

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#95

Post by mdorazio »

wyattpeak wrote: post #50

People keep saying that China was accepting recyclables. They weren't accepting them, they were buying them. It's hard to make a case that it was all just trash when somebody was paying for it.

It wasn't all trash, but a significant portion was. Without expensive sorting machinery, recycling is generally only profitable with extremely cheap labor and a disregard for environmental damage caused by tossing the unprofitable stuff in the nearest dump. What was profitable for 1990s China would not have been profitable for the US.

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#96

Post by toomuchtodo »

mojomark wrote: post #82
jandrese wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you are correct here. We were shoving "recycling" in otherwise empty shipping containers and sending them to China where they get dumped on the ground and the poorest of the poor pick through them for the few things that are actually recyclable. I saw at least one person say back in the 2000s that single stream recycling was basically a lie, but it was worth it to get people into the recycling mindset. This…

> I suspect you are correct here. We were shoving "recycling" in otherwise empty shipping containers and sending them to China... This actually makes sense. The container trade imbalance leaves the U.S. with a large excess of containers (it costs more to return them than for China to make new ones apparently). I actually just bought a condo on eastern shore of MD. The small town stopped recycling a few years ago to s…

Consider advocating for plasma gasification after the low hanging recycling efforts have been picked (metals, glass, and construction material must be presorted from gasification feedstock to prevent excessive slag production). It's cleaner than incineration, and the resulting syngas and slag can be used for energy generation and road construction (respectively). There is a cost of course, but is arguably a net positive versus landfilling or burning recyclables.

In the end, with much effort, America is going to need to adopt the sorting required for multi stream recycling/waste disposal if we want to "clean up our act", until such time a machine is invented where unwanted matter goes in and desired matter (and/or energy) comes out.

https://plastics.americanchemistry.com/Sustainability-Recycl... (Warning, PDF: Gasification of Non-Recycled Plastics From Municipal Solid Waste In the United States)

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#97

Post by dang »

czps wrote: post #84
wyattpeak wrote: post #50

People keep saying that China was accepting recyclables. They weren't accepting them, they were buying them. It's hard to make a case that it was all just trash when somebody was paying for it.

I don’t know the industry but it seems to me that if the “trash” was bought by Chinese companies only to be dumped there for the most part then it’s still trash. Was it cheaper to ship this stuff to China than to pay American landfills to handle this stuff? I don’t think having someone pay for it matters. Isn’t it the end result that matters?

Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but should have some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. There are legit uses for throwaways, just not routinely.

Lots more explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#98

Post by czps »

dang wrote: post #97
czps wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know the industry but it seems to me that if the “trash” was bought by Chinese companies only to be dumped there for the most part then it’s still trash. Was it cheaper to ship this stuff to China than to pay American landfills to handle this stuff? I don’t think having someone pay for it matters. Isn’t it the end result that matters?

Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but should have some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. There are legit use…

Generally when I reach a certain number of points I destroy the account by changing the password to something that I can’t remember and I don’t use an email address with my accounts. There is no delete option that I’m aware of. I’ve been on the site for a long time. Since the beginning. I didn’t know you guys kept track of MAC addresses or however else you track this stuff. I won’t do it again. This is the push I’ve needed to stop coming to the site. Thanks. I mean it.

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#99

Post by fkistner »

blattimwind wrote: post #92
maxxxxx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a law or is it voluntary? I don't remember.

When you sell something with a deposit on it you have to accept returns of stuff with deposit on it.

Nit pick, things work differently for multi-way and one-way containers:

- There are no special regulations for multi-way bottles (glass and plastic alike). Most stores will accept only those they are incentivized to, i.e. the brands they sell (manufacturers are eager to get them back to be able to reuse them).

- As soon as a store sells a kind of one-way container (plastic bottles, aluminum cans), they have to accept, pay out the mandatory €0.25 deposit for, and properly dispose of each and every one-way container of that kind customers bring in (in household quantities). There is a clearing mechanism, since store's sales might not match their returns.

Re: As Costs Skyrocket, More U.S. Cities Stop Recycling

#100

Post by kenrose »

czps wrote: post #98
dang wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but should have some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. There are legit use…

Generally when I reach a certain number of points I destroy the account by changing the password to something that I can’t remember and I don’t use an email address with my accounts. There is no delete option that I’m aware of. I’ve been on the site for a long time. Since the beginning. I didn’t know you guys kept track of MAC addresses or however else you track this stuff. I won’t do it again. This is the push I’ve…

I think you mean IP addresses. :-)
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