Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 133 posts

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#61

Post by [deleted] »

badpun wrote: post #57
tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

If you make American-level software engineer salary in Sweden, your EFFECTIVE (not marginal, effective) tax rate is a freaking 55% - at least that’s the number given to me by a recruiter whi tried to bring me there. Also, you pay 25% VAT. I’m sorry, but that’s a bit outrageous.

[deleted]

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#62

Post by czps »

rayiner wrote: post #20
tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

> In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) Taxes as a percentage of GDP in Sweden is 37%, versus about 27% in the United States.

Healthcare gets funded in each country by a combination of taxes and people paying out of pocket. In the U.S. employer subsidized health care insurance should be viewed as part of an employee’s compensation. What matters in such discussions is not the tax rate but the overall spending per capita and how much it costs at point of contact. The relevant facts are that the U.S. spends far more per capita and costs far more at point of contact than every other OECD country.

I think the person you responded to was attempting to point out that Sweden’s healthcare costs come mostly from taxes and is cheap at point of contact. I don’t believe they meant to give the impression that taxes in the U.S. are higher than in Sweden.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#63

Post by lisper »

onion2k wrote: post #58
lisper wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You weren't paying for the glue and the five minutes. You were paying for the overhead of maintaining all the other stuff that was there that you might have needed under different circumstances but happened not to need that day.

If I go to an Apple store and buy a mouse would it be reasonable for them to add on $300 for keeping iMacs in stock just in case I'd wanted one?

Is it reasonable for Apple to charge $89.95 for a switch?

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HJBD2LL/A/ablenet-plate-s...

Also, Apple doesn't have to factor in the cost of malpractice insurance.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#64

Post by mseidl »

badpun wrote: post #57
tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

If you make American-level software engineer salary in Sweden, your EFFECTIVE (not marginal, effective) tax rate is a freaking 55% - at least that’s the number given to me by a recruiter whi tried to bring me there. Also, you pay 25% VAT. I’m sorry, but that’s a bit outrageous.

As a German software engineer that used to work in the USA, do I pay more taxes in Germany, yes. But, I don't have to worry about going bankrupt from medical issues. In Seattle where I used to live daycare is 30,000$ a year per kid. In Germany it's at most like 200-300 euros a month. Plus you get kindergeld too(200 euros per kid). We don't go into 10s of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for school. Even with my "good" benefits I had at my job in the US, I would never move back.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#65

Post by rayiner »

sarcasmOrTears wrote: post #48
tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

With healthcare you either have a true free market, as in no licenses, no patents, etc or you need the State to regulate it and provide it for everybody. The US has the worst possible combination.

A “true free market” doesn’t have no patents any more than it has no rights in land. Patents prevent what would othwrwise be a market failure (free riding) just as property rights in land prevent tragedy of the commons. Put differently, you can’t have markets where you can just take things instead of entering into transactions. Because you can do that in the state of nature, markets are inherently artificial constructs.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#66

Post by lisper »

7952 wrote: post #51
lisper wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You weren't paying for the glue and the five minutes. You were paying for the overhead of maintaining all the other stuff that was there that you might have needed under different circumstances but happened not to need that day.

That would make sense if it was a fixed charge regardless of treatment. But if you did need those extra facilities they would charge you even more!

Sure, the overhead charges are spread proportionally according to usage, not equally among all patients. I see nothing wrong with that.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#67

Post by lisper »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #41
lisper wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You weren't paying for the glue and the five minutes. You were paying for the overhead of maintaining all the other stuff that was there that you might have needed under different circumstances but happened not to need that day.

No none of that overhead was needed. He was giving them free money. That's what this system is more akin too.

Please go back and re-read what I wrote, paying particular attention to "might have needed under different circumstances but happened not to need that day".

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#68

Post by hollerith »

mseidl wrote: post #64
badpun wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make American-level software engineer salary in Sweden, your EFFECTIVE (not marginal, effective) tax rate is a freaking 55% - at least that’s the number given to me by a recruiter whi tried to bring me there. Also, you pay 25% VAT. I’m sorry, but that’s a bit outrageous.

As a German software engineer that used to work in the USA, do I pay more taxes in Germany, yes. But, I don't have to worry about going bankrupt from medical issues. In Seattle where I used to live daycare is 30,000$ a year per kid. In Germany it's at most like 200-300 euros a month. Plus you get kindergeld too(200 euros per kid). We don't go into 10s of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for schoo…

For how many years did you work in the USA?

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#69

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

superpermutat0r wrote: post #21
tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

Absolutely, public spending on healthcare in USA is enormous. Higher than military budget. USA is unfortunately country where enormous amounts of people are sick. Mostly side effects of obesityand lack of physical activity.

The spending is due to research and development, not because more people are sick.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#70

Post by superpermutat0r »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #69
superpermutat0r wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, public spending on healthcare in USA is enormous. Higher than military budget. USA is unfortunately country where enormous amounts of people are sick. Mostly side effects of obesityand lack of physical activity.

The spending is due to research and development, not because more people are sick.

Not really, it's Medicaid and Medicare.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_S...

Post reply on HN