Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#51

Post by 7952 » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #36

enraged_camel wrote: post #2

I accidentally stabbed myself in the finger while cutting open a package using a knife. Stupid, I know. The would was small, maybe 1 centimeter, but deep enough that it wouldn't stop bleeding on its own. My girlfriend insisted we go to the ER (urgent cares around here are closed on Sundays), so we did. I was the only one there that day. I was ushered in to see a doctor. The doctor looked at the wound, and said, "this…

You weren't paying for the glue and the five minutes. You were paying for the overhead of maintaining all the other stuff that was there that you might have needed under different circumstances but happened not to need that day.

That would make sense if it was a fixed charge regardless of treatment. But if you did need those extra facilities they would charge you even more!

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#52

Post by ams6110 » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

swozey wrote: post #39

enraged_camel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. Americans don't actually have an objection to paying more for healthcare. What they do have an objection to is paying for other people's healthcare. America is a deeply individualistic society, and the idea of one's tax dollars being spent to benefit others lies at the root of most peo…

All this leads to is less people going in for annual checkups and preventative health care which leads to people becoming catastrophically sick ($40k medical bills) vs. preventing that situation from happening at all if it can be prevented; or catching it early on so it can be mitigated. It's been a long time since I've worked in retail where I had no employee provided healthcare but back then I'd only go to the doct…

A lot of people just don't like doctors. I have good insurance, but I haven't been to a doctor (MD) in probably close to 20 years.

I do get regular dental cleaning and checks though.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#53

Post by deogeo » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #12

tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

>>Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. Americans don't actually have an objection to paying more for healthcare. What they do have an objection to is paying for other people's healthcare. America is a deeply individualistic society, and the idea of one's tax dollars being spent to benefit others lies at the root of most peo…

> America is a deeply individualistic society

Polls say otherwise: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/08/new-poll-majority-of-...

Who benefits from convincing Americans they're individualistic and should remain isolated when negotiating with giant corporations?

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#54

Post by User23 » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:34 PM UTC

MiddleEndian wrote: post #40

enraged_camel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. Americans don't actually have an objection to paying more for healthcare. What they do have an objection to is paying for other people's healthcare. America is a deeply individualistic society, and the idea of one's tax dollars being spent to benefit others lies at the root of most peo…

Ironically, I support single payer healthcare (or at least a dramatic restructuring that decouples pricing from employment) specifically because of individualism. Right now, you need to work at a corporation to get collective bargaining for healthcare prices. This presents a huge disadvantage to people wanting to be contractors, self-employed artists, people wanting to start small businesses, people who only want to…

I support a variant of single payer healthcare too: you pay for your own healthcare out of pocket. All this requires is that wages be high enough and health care costs be controlled. If this sounds impossible, you should consider that it was how our system worked in the USA in living memory.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#55

Post by swozey » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:35 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #52

swozey wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this leads to is less people going in for annual checkups and preventative health care which leads to people becoming catastrophically sick ($40k medical bills) vs. preventing that situation from happening at all if it can be prevented; or catching it early on so it can be mitigated. It's been a long time since I've worked in retail where I had no employee provided healthcare but back then I'd only go to the doct…

A lot of people just don't like doctors. I have good insurance, but I haven't been to a doctor (MD) in probably close to 20 years. I do get regular dental cleaning and checks though.

Oh believe me, I sat in my car outside for an hour before I even forced myself to go into the ER. I was afraid of doctors, hadn't been in years, and my first foray since then would be taking myself to the ER. I was terrified.

And.. it wasn't bad at all. I'd never had surgery. They knocked me out and I woke up and didn't even know it was over with until I checked my stomach for the scar.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#56

Post by lordnacho » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:35 PM UTC

I remember when I heard about my uncle passing away in America. He had the symptoms this lady had. For some reason he didn't go to the doctor, and it really puzzled me. At the time I'd put it down to inherited stubbornness, because my dad had had the same thing happen as well and would only go to the hospital because I forced him to.

Now I'm wondering whether my uncle was simply scared of the bill. I found out he'd told colleagues he was feeling numb on one side and had blurry vision, yet still didn't go to the hospital.

My uncle died, it was more serious that he thought.

My dad survived and still lives. In Denmark you rarely think about the cost, but rather the queue to see a doctor (if you have something minor, you might wait a long time). The doctors knew what was going on immediately, so it wasn't a long wait.

Is it common for blue collar workers to be without health insurance in the US? I don't want to ask my cousins about it, too painful and it would probably trigger a big rant about healthcare.

Also, if your healthcare is tied to your job, what do you do between jobs? Just be really careful when chopping the onions?

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#57

Post by badpun » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

tapland wrote: post #5

Don't fall for the 'yes, but countries that have cheap healthcare pay for it with taxes'. The US pays more than most from taxes[0]. In Sweden we pay less per capita than americans do (from taxes) and my total _maximum_ healthcare costs for _all_ treatments, medications, surgury etc, that in the US would be paid by your employer or yourself are: $125/year max for all visits and procedures [1] + $250/year max for all p…

If you make American-level software engineer salary in Sweden, your EFFECTIVE (not marginal, effective) tax rate is a freaking 55% - at least that’s the number given to me by a recruiter whi tried to bring me there. Also, you pay 25% VAT. I’m sorry, but that’s a bit outrageous.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#58

Post by onion2k » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:39 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #36

enraged_camel wrote: post #2

I accidentally stabbed myself in the finger while cutting open a package using a knife. Stupid, I know. The would was small, maybe 1 centimeter, but deep enough that it wouldn't stop bleeding on its own. My girlfriend insisted we go to the ER (urgent cares around here are closed on Sundays), so we did. I was the only one there that day. I was ushered in to see a doctor. The doctor looked at the wound, and said, "this…

You weren't paying for the glue and the five minutes. You were paying for the overhead of maintaining all the other stuff that was there that you might have needed under different circumstances but happened not to need that day.

If I go to an Apple store and buy a mouse would it be reasonable for them to add on $300 for keeping iMacs in stock just in case I'd wanted one?

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#59

Post by raincom » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #56

I remember when I heard about my uncle passing away in America. He had the symptoms this lady had. For some reason he didn't go to the doctor, and it really puzzled me. At the time I'd put it down to inherited stubbornness, because my dad had had the same thing happen as well and would only go to the hospital because I forced him to. Now I'm wondering whether my uncle was simply scared of the bill. I found out he'd t…

If one is a blue collar worker for a large corp (not a small biz), he/she usually have a health insurance. However, it comes with lots of co payments, out-of-network payments, etc; this can ruin a person financially.

Many employees of small businesses don't have insurance or super crappy insurance with lots of copayments.

How about Uber drivers? They don't have any health insurance.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#60

Post by tapland » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

patricklorio wrote: post #23

tapland wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need single payer because you can overcharge anyone who can't negotiate lower rates (i.e. individuals who's personal business with the healthcare system doesn't have much if any effect on it). Compare that to a state bargaining on behalf of 10+ million customers.

I'm not sure the government can do a good job negotiating on behalf of its citizens. It doesn't work well for student loans (blind checks that increases tuition) [1], California's power cost (rate set with gov cooperation) [2], or even Medicare [3]. I think we need to fix several more issues before single payer would be a suitable option. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2017/02/22/how-u... [2] http://…

How is this, from your link, the government bargaining on medical costs?

> but the plan bypasses an obvious remedy - one that President Donald Trump embraced as a candidate: allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices directly with pharmaceutical companies.

To me (non-english native speaker) it reads as if though they are literally not allowed to negotiate.

When it comes to schools, here (Sweden) the government negotiates how much money the schools get per student, not just the interest rates of loans. Lowering interest rates means students can afford a higher loan. None of this is comparable to negotiating costs.