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Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

reuters.com

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Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#391

Post by toyg »

pizlonator wrote: post #389
toyg wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was intentionally pushed by his campaign precisely for that reason - to get all the dirt out while they can control the spin. Better to burn the story now that he’s “just” a primary candidate.

I mean that would make sense but source?

The way it's stated, to me, indicates clear coordination: "Members of the group have protected O’Rourke’s secret for decades, reluctant to compromise his political viability. Now, in a series of interviews, CDC members have acknowledged O’Rourke as one of their own. In all, more than a dozen members of the group agreed to be named for the first time in a book about the hacking group by this reporter that is scheduled to be published in June by Public Affairs. O’Rourke was interviewed early in his run for the Senate".

So the reporter interviewed him first then went to the other members, who somehow "flipped" uncharacteristically (unlike they had done before). The book will be published in June but the reporter decided to start banging the drum much earlier, which is more convenient for O'Rourke than for his sales (he's basically given all the good bits away already). If he wanted to maximize exposure and sales, he would have waited for the eve of a primary; like this, it helps O'Rourke get the dirt out early.

Speculation? I'd just call it realism.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#392

Post by [deleted] »

kakarot wrote: post #387
tptacek wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They both are, with differing connotations.

So then what point are you even trying to make? If the lowest common denominator here is still a hacker, trying to make the argument that they aren't technically "hackers" doesn't make sense.

[deleted]

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#393

Post by kakarot »

tptacek wrote: post #390
kakarot wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then what point are you even trying to make? If the lowest common denominator here is still a hacker, trying to make the argument that they aren't technically "hackers" doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you pretend like this is unclear. The debate over the meaning of the word "hacker" is the most famous semantic debate in this community, and one of the most famous on the Internet. The meaning connoted by the title of this site derives from the MIT hacker community. The meaning connoted by cDc is the the one from the movie Wargames. And this hasn't "changed since the 1980s"; the debate…

I'm not pretending anything, and if you think I'm deceitfully engaging in this discussion you need to step back and consider that I have my own understanding of this matter and it may or may not be flawed.

> The meaning connoted by cDc is the the one from the movie Wargames

cDc engaged in much more than run-of-the-mill systems exploits. They produced a lot of literature and overall espoused hacker culture as an inclusive one. I'd be very interested to hear what each of them think about how broadly the term "hacker" can be applied, and I'm willing to bet they don't all share the same view.

> The argument isn't about whether Beto was a part of hacker culture at all. Clearly, he was. It just wasn't the hacker culture the OP was referring to.

You can't do that. You can't say "both definitions are valid" and then bristle up when someone doesn't use your preferred definition.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#394

Post by barbecue_sauce »

js2 wrote: post #355
txcwpalpha wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society glamorizes hackers hard . Have you ever seen War Games? The Matrix? Live Free or Die Hard? Mr Robot? Blackhat? Any recent spy movie? What about the multitude of other movies/shows where hackers aren't the focus, but are certainly glamorized, a la NCIS, CSI, Limitless, etc. There's an entire genre of film & television about hackers and they are almost always portrayed as cool, attractive, powerful people with…

> Society glamorizes hackers hard. Hollywood glamorizes hackers, like violence, crime, rock n roll, space travel, and just about everything else hard. At the risk of hyperbole, if society glamorized hackers hard, Aaron Swartz might still be with us.

This was what I was going to say. I'm not sure society itself has internalized Hollywood's glamorization of hackers, and the glamorization is more a product of trying to make something mundane seem more interesting in the context of a film.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#395

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

krapp wrote: post #386
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking pot is not the same as endangering lives. Also Donald Trump doesn't drink, let-alone drink and drive. There's few crimes that are more dangerous than drinking and driving.

The point is that these people all have incidents in their past which should, in theory, have hurt them politically, but which in practice, didn't.

And my point is not all past incidents are created equal. So it's hard to compare the effects.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#396

Post by tptacek »

kakarot wrote: post #393
tptacek wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you pretend like this is unclear. The debate over the meaning of the word "hacker" is the most famous semantic debate in this community, and one of the most famous on the Internet. The meaning connoted by the title of this site derives from the MIT hacker community. The meaning connoted by cDc is the the one from the movie Wargames. And this hasn't "changed since the 1980s"; the debate…

I'm not pretending anything, and if you think I'm deceitfully engaging in this discussion you need to step back and consider that I have my own understanding of this matter and it may or may not be flawed. > The meaning connoted by cDc is the the one from the movie Wargames cDc engaged in much more than run-of-the-mill systems exploits. They produced a lot of literature and overall espoused hacker culture as an inclu…

You are making up a debate that nobody else is having, and then putting me on the opposite side of it as yourself. We're thus talking past each other.

For what it's worth, and not apropos whatever that debate is, I'm very comfortable with how I'm characterizing cDc and what cDc members would in general think about what I'm saying, albeit that the Boston ones would claim that I am not giving them enough credit for also going to weird Boston nerd culture places like the MIT hackers did.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#397

Post by kakarot »

tptacek wrote: post #396
kakarot wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not pretending anything, and if you think I'm deceitfully engaging in this discussion you need to step back and consider that I have my own understanding of this matter and it may or may not be flawed. > The meaning connoted by cDc is the the one from the movie Wargames cDc engaged in much more than run-of-the-mill systems exploits. They produced a lot of literature and overall espoused hacker culture as an inclu…

You are making up a debate that nobody else is having, and then putting me on the opposite side of it as yourself. We're thus talking past each other. For what it's worth, and not apropos whatever that debate is, I'm very comfortable with how I'm characterizing cDc and what cDc members would in general think about what I'm saying, albeit that the Boston ones would claim that I am not giving them enough credit for als…

Making up a debate? I walked into a debate. Why are you so fixated on making my motives out to be sinister?

What debate exactly do you think I'm making up? This entire discussion stems from a disagreement about what qualifies as a "hacker", which is all that I have addressed.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#400

Post by wybiral »

JeremyNT wrote: post #375
wybiral wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how do we reconcile his conservative voting record with this contrary image he presents? Because a good representative represents their people. And as a Texan, I can assure you that his left-leaning constituents weren't always the majority he had to represent. Any politician who blindly ignores a large segment of their constituents (even the ones that didn't vote for them) isn't someone you want in office. I don't…

He represented an urban district which was overwhelming blue. Are you sure his constituents were holding him back in this regard?

Blue doesn't mean far left progressive. Being a Democrat in Texas isn't necessarily the same as being a Democrat in a more progressive state. So "blue" is an ambiguous term here.
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