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Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#211

Post by RickS »

8bithero wrote: post #201
RickS wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an impractical first step, but for the downvoters, executive coaching – including specifically ex-mil coaching – is a real thing that people do and get value from. If you want to get such experience without sourcing and paying a coach, read Jocko's Extreme Ownership: https://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Ownership-U-S-Navy-SEALs/dp/1... Marc Andreessen called this out as the book he gifts most often, which I…

Hehe, I also recommended the same book in my reply. Definitely, a must read! :p What do you mean when you say, you "found the book a bit difficult"? As in tedious to read, or difficult to implement?

Difficult to implement, by way of being difficult to agree with in some places. It advocates a level of self-blame that feels like it would be effective from a self-motivation perspective but is not necessarily always reflective of reality.

Of course I have responsibility for my reaction and my mindset in situations, but it seems that the book creeps into "taking the blame for everything". Though I get the feeling that fuzziness comes from my worldviews as much as Jocko's.

I've got a background that involves a good amount of shame and anxiety, so I think I have problems with the distinction between feeling "responsible" for situations in the "shepherding" sense, which is what I think Jocko wants, and feeling "culpable" for situations which is what the inner voice of shame freaks out about.

The difference between "culpable" (bad?) and "accountable" (good?) is a very nuanced one, and I haven't been able to fully reconcile those ideas.

It reminds me of this SSC post, about different people needing different things or getting different things from books.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/06/09/all-debates-are-braver...

It's been a year or so since I read the book. Sounds like I need to revisit it and get some clarity on my stance.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#212

Post by heller97 »

In my experience with engineers (I'm not an engineer.) they think that technical details are the whole thing, and are the totality of what they need to communicate. But nonengineers need more, contextual information to understand a project, like the intellectual history of the technology, a story about the development process, maybe some examples of it in use, an image or video is useful. To my mind a leader would talk the whole enchilada.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#213

Post by heller97 »

In my experience engineers think that technical details are the whole story. But nonengineers (I am not an engineer.) need more contextual information, like some intellectual history of the idea, examples of the technology in use, stories about the development process, maybe an image or video. To me a leader is someone who can talk the whole enchilada.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#215

Post by ospider »

rcfox wrote: post #62
warent wrote: post #53

Leadership is basically just people-engineering and business-engineering. Engineers use tools to build products, and so do leaders. The immediate assumption is that people are tools/resources to build the product. That's talking like an engineer. Don't use your team to work on a project/product. Use the project to work on your team. They're not there to build the product. They're there to gain some personal fulfillme…

> The immediate assumption is that people are tools/resources to build the product. That's talking like an engineer. That's more management-speak than engineer, in my experience. I hate being referred to as a resource.

I think the OP is saying that a good manager does not treat employees as resources

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#217

Post by davefbb »

Give your perspective as it fits into and supports the larger business context of the company. This perspective (in moderation) would likely benefit your team as well.

I've also found that many non-technical executives have some level of fear of technology, so remembering to explain things in ways that they can understand (and helping them gain some degree of technical understanding in the process) can also be effective.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#218

Post by emeerson »

warent wrote: post #53

Leadership is basically just people-engineering and business-engineering. Engineers use tools to build products, and so do leaders. The immediate assumption is that people are tools/resources to build the product. That's talking like an engineer. Don't use your team to work on a project/product. Use the project to work on your team. They're not there to build the product. They're there to gain some personal fulfillme…

This is very wise advice, and I can especially appreciate the layer of empathy: empower engineers to add to their toolchain (mgmt or technical).

To complement this thinking, however, I also expect a leader to align engineers to business priorities. There is a fine line to walk in balancing the growth of engineers with the needs of a business. I expect engineers with certain years of experience to understand that as professionals we are hired to address these needs.

Of course there is also the flip side of this alignment: aligning the business to the real (vs. imagined) capabilities or investment needed.

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