Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their privacy

blog.malwarebytes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 119 posts

Re: Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their privacy

#41

Post by propogandist »

hedora wrote: post #36
propogandist wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google admitted to congress they're constantly tracking people via their devices >Hawley pointed out on Tuesday that a user's location is sent to Google hundreds of times a day, even when the phone is not in use. In fact, Hawley said, a user's location is tracked "every four minutes, or 14 times an hour, roughly 340 times during a 24-hour period," even when the phone is not in use. >DeVries confessed that "location i…

This has been well-known for a while, so the story itself isn’t news. (The fact that congress called them in to testify is news, since it means maybe some politicians are going to make noises about how unacceptable this is, or perhaps even introduce a bill.)

It's not new news to me, but having a Google exec publically admit should be bigger news, in my opinion. In the testimony [0] he also positions Google's location service as something that's required for the phone to function and even make calls, which is untrue. Being a lawyer and apparently on Google's privacy counsel for a decade this may've been a disclosure on how deep the data-mining goes. These are the sort of details that should be pulled out and scrutinized by the media.

Unfortunately most of these news publications rely on things like Google's YT + Adsense for content distribution and revenue, so they may not want to anger their overlords. I also doubt anything will come out of this hearing -- people don't seem to care about privacy and they want convenience. Although this senator understands the privacy concerns, most of his peers are clueless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwyuCtbK3qw

Re: Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their privacy

#43

Post by foobarian »

ineedasername wrote: post #29
milkthefat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if i created a device that has multiple speakers and through a software update I make one an (albeit)poor quality mic? Do I need to tell you before hand that this was possible? Are they still considered speakers?

Uh, yes? I don't think it's an open question that product updates should detail the updates made. And since recording someone in any way without their knowledge is illegal in many contexts, that would go double for something like you describe.

The point is that there are a million devices with speakers and we don't expect their manufacturers to disclose that it is possible to record us with them. As long as they are not actually doing it I don't see the big deal with the dormant microphone either.

Re: Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their privacy

#47

Post by dontbenebby »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #19

I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I still don't get the fuzz. People buy crap like Amazon echo left and right, and have been carrying little computers with microphones and an internet connection around all day for even longer. Apart from the fact that any sane person shouldn't trust any google product value their privacy in the first place, how many people are there consciously not buying a smar…

>I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I still don't get the fuzz. People buy crap like Amazon echo left and right

People are aware an Echo contains a microphone though.

For consent to be valid, it must be informed consent.

Keep in mind pretty much any sensor can be leveraged via court order, so it's valid for people to be upset they were unable to properly threat model due to a lack of information.

Re: Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their privacy

#48

Post by ineedasername »

foobarian wrote: post #43
ineedasername wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, yes? I don't think it's an open question that product updates should detail the updates made. And since recording someone in any way without their knowledge is illegal in many contexts, that would go double for something like you describe.

The point is that there are a million devices with speakers and we don't expect their manufacturers to disclose that it is possible to record us with them. As long as they are not actually doing it I don't see the big deal with the dormant microphone either.

They disclose the speaker. And I'm willing to bet the vast majority aren't wired to be an input device. Your comparison is a false equivalency.

Re: Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their privacy

#49

Post by HALtheWise »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #19

I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I still don't get the fuzz. People buy crap like Amazon echo left and right, and have been carrying little computers with microphones and an internet connection around all day for even longer. Apart from the fact that any sane person shouldn't trust any google product value their privacy in the first place, how many people are there consciously not buying a smar…

I agree. Remember Amazon's little dash buttons they sold to allow quick reordering of products? They contain a microphone. I'm pretty sure they didn't mention that in their public documents, and it never seems to have been used for anything except an ultrasonic pairing procedure with some iPhones, but it definitely exists. HN didn't get mad because Amazon has never claimed to be a morally good company, so they aren't the current corporate bogeyman. It seems to me like disclosing when I sell a product all of the nefarious ways it could possibly be OTA updated is a little bit of an extreme position, given that even a simple accelerometer can be used to track you and sometimes record sound. In short, if you think a company is actively working against your well being, don't put anything they make in your house. Otherwise, don't worry.

Re: Google’s Nest fiasco harms user trust and invades their privacy

#50

Post by iforgotpassword »

reaperducer wrote: post #35
iforgotpassword wrote: post #19

I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I still don't get the fuzz. People buy crap like Amazon echo left and right, and have been carrying little computers with microphones and an internet connection around all day for even longer. Apart from the fact that any sane person shouldn't trust any google product value their privacy in the first place, how many people are there consciously not buying a smar…

little computers with microphones and an internet connection around all day for even longer The difference is that we know our phones have microphones and cameras and internet. The reason people are upset is because there was no way anyone would know they added an internet-connected microphone to their home with this device unless they opened it up and reverse engineered the firmware. If anyone can prove that these m…

> The difference is that we know our phones have microphones and cameras and internet.

The question is, does that really matter? Isn't that just something you tell yourself to feel like you're still in control, ahead of the game? I have two colleagues who in general are pretty concerned with privacy, data protection etc. but still bought an echo. Then countered my surprise with the same argument: at least I know it's listening and how it works! Like somehow, that knowledge makes you immune to the Problem. In reality, you don't suddenly behave differently at home. You won't think twice before saying something. You just managed to fool yourself enough to deal with that cognitive dissonance.

And I'm all for charges against google here, I mean I dislike them more every day because of something they did, including this story. It's just funny that some people still think you can trust them in any way.

Post reply on HN