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25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

which.co.uk

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Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#21

Post by ACS_Solver »

jstanley wrote: post #9

One of the problems with a cashless society is that the banks aren't required to give you a bank account. If none of the banks will give you a bank account, and there's no such thing as cash... then you're just not allowed to have money. That shouldn't be a position that it is possible to get into.

That is incorrect for EU countries. The EU, through Directive 2014/92, mandates that banks cannot refuse basic accounts to legal EU residents (unless they believe you're laundering money or financing terror groups).

I live in an essentially cashless country, but even countries where cash is still used would be very hard to live in without a bank account, so that legislation is important.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#22

Post by jdietrich »

sbacic wrote: post #4

I've recently visited London for the first time. What really stunned me was the huge number of homeless people. They were practically everywhere. And they all relied on cash donations. I wonder what will happen to these people as society becomes more and more cashless? What effect will it have on crime?

Begging is a controversial issue in the UK. Our welfare system is far from perfect (and it has been substantially denuded by the current Conservative government) but there are relatively few people who need to beg to survive - primarily non-UK nationals with no recourse to public funds.

The consensus view among charities who work with the homeless is that a) most beggars aren't rough sleepers, b) most rough sleepers don't beg and c) begging primarily serves to fund drug addictions. Though by no means universal, many people in the sector are of the opinion that giving to beggars has a net negative effect by helping to perpetuate addiction. Begging certainly isn't a sustainable solution to the factors that cause homelessness - mental illness, addiction, economic insecurity and a lack of social housing. It is entirely plausible that the diminution of begging by a move to cashlessness could see an increase in acquisitive crime.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#23

Post by pjc50 »

JimDabell wrote: post #12
jstanley wrote: post #9

One of the problems with a cashless society is that the banks aren't required to give you a bank account. If none of the banks will give you a bank account, and there's no such thing as cash... then you're just not allowed to have money. That shouldn't be a position that it is possible to get into.

> One of the problems with a cashless society is that the banks aren't required to give you a bank account. In the UK, the nine largest banks are legally required to offer basic bank accounts specifically to cater to people who cannot otherwise get a bank account.

However, this is more complicated if you're not a UK national, and if the Home Office decides you're an illegal immigrant (a process with a deliberate high false positive rate) it can get closed.

https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/blog/6538/Student-banking-Do-you-r... gives a decent overview of the process. It also mentions the unofficial national ID of the UK, household utility bills.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#26

Post by Retra »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #21
jstanley wrote: post #9

One of the problems with a cashless society is that the banks aren't required to give you a bank account. If none of the banks will give you a bank account, and there's no such thing as cash... then you're just not allowed to have money. That shouldn't be a position that it is possible to get into.

That is incorrect for EU countries. The EU, through Directive 2014/92, mandates that banks cannot refuse basic accounts to legal EU residents (unless they believe you're laundering money or financing terror groups). I live in an essentially cashless country, but even countries where cash is still used would be very hard to live in without a bank account, so that legislation is important.

Do if you're not a legal EU resident, you will be unable to purchase food/lodging/transportation?

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#27

Post by Retra »

iamgopal wrote: post #24

How we/society/constitution stopping government from just create arbitrary number on some server to create money out of the blue ?

Money just isn't as important as what real humans are doing day to day. So governments have no trouble fudging the numbers if it keeps people doing what they want them to. That's not an unreasonable thing to do.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#28

Post by vinay427 »

Retra wrote: post #26
ACS_Solver wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is incorrect for EU countries. The EU, through Directive 2014/92, mandates that banks cannot refuse basic accounts to legal EU residents (unless they believe you're laundering money or financing terror groups). I live in an essentially cashless country, but even countries where cash is still used would be very hard to live in without a bank account, so that legislation is important.

Do if you're not a legal EU resident, you will be unable to purchase food/lodging/transportation?

No, you certainly wouldn't be unable. You would not have the right to a basic bank account in the EU country, but you could use one of many possible payment methods from your home country. If you're traveling to another country in the first place, you probably have those options available to you.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#29

Post by Broken_Hippo »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #15
argd678 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the reason they wouldn’t give you an account? It seems like helping people get bank accounts would be what you’d want, though the IT issues arround outages and lack of network services in area is a hard one.

In the USA, not meeting minimum deposit requirements, having a bad credit history or trackrecord with banks, not paying monthly fees, and not knowing how to use a computer can all preclude someone from being able to qualify or use a bank account. I've personally seen friends struggle with all of the above, but the reloadable AMEX cards at Walmart seem to be doing well to fill in the gaps (except for not being able to…

I'm not sure about the AMEX reloadable cards, but the Visa/Mastercard ones allow folks to have direct deposit. IIRC, they tend to waive the monthly fee if you do so.

Additionally, I know many employers in Indiana offered prepaid cards to their employees that did not have bank accounts. It has been 5 or 6 years since I lived there, mind you. These had fees involved as well, but it was better than nothing.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#30

Post by frosted-flakes »

pjc50 wrote: post #23
JimDabell wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the problems with a cashless society is that the banks aren't required to give you a bank account. In the UK, the nine largest banks are legally required to offer basic bank accounts specifically to cater to people who cannot otherwise get a bank account.

However, this is more complicated if you're not a UK national, and if the Home Office decides you're an illegal immigrant (a process with a deliberate high false positive rate) it can get closed. https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/blog/6538/Student-banking-Do-you-r... gives a decent overview of the process. It also mentions the unofficial national ID of the UK, household utility bills.

I take that to mean that the UK is not switching to e-billing for utilities any time soon.
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